Doubles vs Sidemount

[vicp]

"should give you the reserves". Nope.

Huh?

You might need to explain this to this "stroke."

 

[Adobo]

Huh?

You might need to explain this to this "stroke."

What is it that you hope to achieve by referring to yourself as that (over and over again)?

 

[rjack321]

"should give you the reserves". Nope.

What AJ said

Lose one tank and you have just enough to exit (in theory) and dubious access to the failed tank's gas (depends on the failure). If its a big failure, feathering the valve to access the gas but blowing a ton of bubbles in your face in the process might not be worth it. e.g. if it unleashes a torrent of percolation whch then forces you into touch contact with the line to exit.

 

[vicp]

What is it that you hope to achieve by referring to yourself as that (over and over again)?

Maybe to point out the moniker attributed by some GUE/DIR zealots (as defined by George Irvine in What is a stroke? by George Irvine) to non-DIR (read SM) divers. I especially like "...Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration..." That probably describes me as my non-DIR style SM rig is a "stroke" rig (as per DIR Sidemount by George Irvine) and the fact that some very experienced (way above my level) divers have been called that by these same folk based on gear choice and configuration.

- Not very good PR - is it?

 

[rjack321]

Maybe to point out the moniker attributed by some GUE/DIR zealots (as defined by George Irvine in What is a stroke? by George Irvine) to non-DIR (read SM) divers. I especially like "...Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration..." That probably describes me as my non-DIR style SM rig is a "stroke" rig (as per DIR Sidemount by George Irvine) and the fact that some very experienced (way above my level) divers have been called that by these same folk based on gear choice and configuration.

- Not very good PR - is it?

Ahh nothing like bringing up 15 year internet crap from George. Its like Godwin's law of SB.

 

[Adobo]

Maybe to point out the moniker attributed by some GUE/DIR zealots (as defined by George Irvine in What is a stroke? by George Irvine) to non-DIR (read SM) divers. I especially like "...Frequently they will give it away with their choice of gear and gear configuration..." That probably describes me as my non-DIR style SM rig is a "stroke" rig (as per DIR Sidemount by George Irvine) and the fact that some very experienced (way above my level) divers have been called that by these same folk based on gear choice and configuration.

- Not very good PR - is it?

I am familiar with the term. And I am familiar with those articles. George Irvine wrote them back when Moses was leading his people out of Egypt.

In more modern times (in the past 5 years or so in Scubaboard), it seems to me that the term is almost exclusively used by non-DIR divers to grind an axe. If you check that GUE Cave training thread, I am pretty sure you are the only one who used that term. Completely unnecessary to the discussion, I might add.

Personally, I find the topic of backmount vs sidemount to be plenty enough to discuss. Lots of experienced cave divers (even regular divers) on this thread. Maybe we could all get more out of the discussion if we focus on the things we all have in common (we all love diving) as opposed to looking for reasons why we should dislike each other?

Just a thought.

 

[vicp]

What AJ said

"should give you the reserves". Nope.

Lose one tank and you have just enough to exit (in theory) and dubious access to the failed tank's gas (depends on the failure). If its a big failure, feathering the valve to access the gas but blowing a ton of bubbles in your face in the process might not be worth it. e.g. if it unleashes a torrent of percolation whch then forces you into touch contact with the line to exit.

Hello!!

THOSE are the reserves - they are there for just such a contingency. I don't know what you guys do for gas management/planning, but what you said "...Lose one tank and you have just enough to exit (in theory)..." is true "in theory", but not very wise as it assumes thirds and failure at turn pressure with no flow. I feel that strict thirds is not conservative enough, even in caves with decent outflow, but that is what gas management and planning are all about.

 

[randytay]

I know you guys don't think much of the z-system, but it eliminates many of the "conventional" SM issues while bing compatible with a BM rig. I for one love it. Second stages already connected to my harness, routed in "standard" BM style. Just attach the bottles and go.

 

[rjack321]

I know you guys don't think much of the z-system, but it eliminates many of the "conventional" SM issues while bing compatible with a BM rig. I for one love it. Second stages already connected to my harness, routed in "standard" BM style. Just attach the bottles and go.

Honestly If I need sidemount I dive sidemount. If its backmountable then I backmount. I am GUE Cave2 in backmount and have no formal course in SM. I don't see a great need to hybridize and attempt to be all things to all people on every dive. The good divers I know and admire have ZERO issues using a CCR, sidemount or backmount - whatever the tools required on the dive they use them without a whole hoopla of internet drama.

This past week was an exception because I reserved SM tanks in MX and then my SM buddy got sick and I ended up SMing backmountable dives since additional doubles weren't available to rent.

---------- Post added March 13th, 2013 at 12:44 PM ----------

Hello!!

THOSE are the reserves - they are there for just such a contingency. I don't know what you guys do for gas management/planning, but what you said "...Lose one tank and you have just enough to exit (in theory)..." is true "in theory", but not very wise as it assumes thirds and failure at turn pressure with no flow. I feel that strict thirds is not conservative enough, even in caves with decent outflow, but that is what gas management and planning are all about.

You were the one arguing that SM is so awesome since you can't "really" lose all the gas in one tank and that you can feather the valve and do other such imporvisations to access it. Things which backmount doesn't require at all with a simple reg failure. Glad to see you've changed your tune on that.

 

[vicp]

I am familiar with the term. And I am familiar with those articles...

Personally, I find the topic of backmount vs sidemount to be plenty enough to discuss. Lots of experienced cave divers (even regular divers) on this thread. Maybe we could all get more out of the discussion if we focus on the things we all have in common (we all love diving) as opposed to looking for reasons why we should dislike each other?

Just a thought.

You are right. There is no need to use that term in an atmosphere open-discussion. I guess I am somewhat defensive as I have heard that term on the "street" (so to speak), have perceived some "attitude" on this board, and those articles are not that old. I will refrain from using it.

George Irvine wrote them back when Moses was leading his people out of Egypt.

In BM or SM?

Ahh nothing like bringing up 15 year internet crap from George. Its like Godwin's law of SB.

Those articles are dated 2011, or so it says - that would make them about 2 years old.

And BTW - SIDEMOUNT ROCKS!!