Doubles vs Sidemount

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azhar

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Location
Karachi, Pakistan
# of dives
25 - 49
We all know that doubles are tried and tested DIR setup. However side mounts are gaining popularity for it's flexibility, better trim adjustments and better visibility of regs etc etc. So what people out there think about side mounts? are they gonna replace doubles? Will there be any standard procedures for side mounts any time soon?

Give your input

Thanks
Azhar
 
I don't think sidemount will replace backmounted doubles any time soon. Each setup has its strong points and weak points, and is useful in different settings. And one thing I think I'm SURE of is that sidemount won't standardize . . . it seems to appeal to the sorts of folks who love to tweak and personalize their setups :)
 
I don't think sidemount will replace backmounted doubles any time soon. Each setup has its strong points and weak points, and is useful in different settings. And one thing I think I'm SURE of is that sidemount won't standardize . . . it seems to appeal to the sorts of folks who love to tweak and personalize their setups :)

I sure wish SideMount would standardize using my setup! LOL.

I agree with you, I don't see it taking over and replacing Back Mount. In some areas, back mount simply works better. Most agree on this. Both have their pro's and con's. Both when done properly are great setups, and can be perfectly safe. Both done incorrectly can be down right dangerous.
 
We all know that doubles are tried and tested DIR setup.
I wonder if it clearer at this point to refer to 'backmount doubles' and 'sidemount doubles', rather than 'doubles' and 'sidemount'. Although sidemount can refer to either a single or double cylinder configuration, the more common configuration is double cylinder. And, with 'backmount doubles' you should probably distinguish between 'backmount manifolded doubles' and 'backmount independent doubles'. I am not trying to be picky or obnoxious about it, rather your post caused me to come to that conclusion. I presume you are referring to backmount, manifolded doubles when you say, 'doubles'.
azhar:
So what people out there think about side mounts? are they gonna replace doubles?
At one point several years ago, I would have said, 'Yes, they will eventually replace them'. But, now, I see a more likely scenario of a growing preference for sidemount double cylinders, but a continuing appeal of backmount, manifolded doubles. As several have noted, each configuration has its place in diving, and strengths and drawbacks. Right now, many people who are using sidemount double cylinders started out using backmount, manifolded double cylinders, and still use the backmount double cylinder configuration at times, as well as the sidemount, double cylinder configuration. I am one of those - I have multiple sets of backmount, manifolded doubles, so I may as well use them. But, as more and more divers are first introduced to double cylinder diving using a sidemount system, I see the pendulum shifting to sidemount. I have broken down two sets of backmount, manifolded doubles for use in sidemount diving. But, I will probably hold onto the others.
azhar:
Will there be any standard procedures for side mounts any time soon?
I suspect the primary standardization that will occur will be in training. The gear configuration itself does, as Lynne and other have pointed out, appeal to the 'independents, who like to tweak and personalize their gear rigging (I am definitely in that camp).

What is really 'standard' about backmount, manifolded doubles? That the cam band bolts are spaced 11" OC apart? Or, that the right post / first stage is usually the attachment point for the primary second stage, which is usually on a long (suitable for donation) hose, while the left post is usually the attachment point for the alternate second stage, which is usually on a short hose, bungeed around the neck / head? Is there a 'standard' for which post supports the primary buoyancy hose? Well, yes, but I see more than a few people diving backmount, manifolded doubles who connect their BCD to the left post inflator hose, and their drysuit to the right post inflator hose, irrespective of what is 'DIR'. Certainly, hose lengths used with sidemount, double cylinders are not standardized. But, I dare say that the majority of divers using sidemount double cylinders use the left cylinder for their primary buoyancy (BCD) and their right cylinder for back-up (dual bladder or drysuit), although that is by no means universal. In general, I would say that most divers using sidemount double cylinders use some form of elastic cord (bungee) to pull the tank valves in toward their armpit / body, although that is not universal, either. So, there is already some level of standardization in sidemount double cylinder diving. I am not trying to dismiss what we do with backmount, manifolded double cylinder diving, just broadening the definition of 'standard'..
TSandM:
And one thing I think I'm SURE of is that sidemount won't standardize . . . it seems to appeal to the sorts of folks who love to tweak and personalize their setups
While I agree with the general sentiment, it is also apparent from several recent threads that at least a few people are pushing for an even greater level of standardization.
 
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Shore diving is very nice in sidemount. Cave diving can be very nice in sidemount. Boat diving varies... if you add real waves to the boat diving or a "do-it-yourself crew" intent upon you climbing up and down a ladder with the bottles on in pitching seas, sidemount takes on a new challenge of sometimes epic proportion.

Sidemount is simply a tool which accomodates diving in a flatter or more horizontal profile and it works very nicely for the physically disabled. I acknowledge SM has a place in diving, but it's not a replacement. Frankly, other than the weight backmounted doubles are just easier for me to handle. The doubles configuration is long-since standardized; I don't have to explain how to share air to every person on the boat, and I don't have to worry about the DM dropping my bottles to the bottom of the sea (happened to my dive buddy with regulators attached), and I don't have to worry about being too wide for a standard ladder if the crew doesn't drop a line in the water. In doubles I have decreased time on the surface as compared to SM (though no SM diver will admit this is true - wait for it), and I can use all the gas available to me in the event of a regulator shutdown.

With SM I have the luxurious ability of bringing one tank at a time to the water's edge. I have the ability to travel with my SM kit more easily (travel stage bottle kits slip over rental bottles in a snap) and some of the new slim harnesses can fit in a carry-on bag no-problem.

Each configuration has its strengths and weaknesses as such it is a tool.
 
In doubles I have decreased time on the surface as compared to SM (though no SM diver will admit this is true - wait for it).

Heck, I'll admit to it. Lets look at a BM stage, scooter, deco cave dive.


Surface prep

BM diver: rigs stage and deco bottle. Drops bottles in water, then second trip for scooter. Rigs back gas tanks. Heads to water.

SM diver: rigs all five bottles. Makes three trips to water. Then an additional trip with scooter. Straps in to harness, then heads to water.

Advantage: toss up. Depending on distance walked, this could I either way.

In water.
BM diver: walks in the water, clips of stage and deco bottle, clips in to scooter. Away he goes.

SM diver: walks in water, clips off wash side tank, runs hoses, top clips stage, bottom clips deco bottle, clips in to scooter and takes off.

Advantage: BM diver.

Overall advantage: toss up. If the SM diver gets to the water first, they can be clipped in ready to go by the time the BM diver is in and clipping in.

My take: Either way the difference is negligible. We are not talking lot of time, just a matter of less then a minute or two in most cases.
 
There is still a lot of variation in BM doubles rigs, much less SM. Myself and another cave diver gave an introduction to doubles clinic a while back. We both have been around for a while (old guys) and both have fairly "standardized" not DIR rigs. It was interesting as we were able to speak about our different approaches, gear set up, and how they may or may not work for others.
Standardization works well for most people because they are not that picky or a host of other reasons. My wife's SM rig, which I built, is very different from both of the SM rigs I presently use. If I set hers up just like either of my two rigs she would kill me as hers is set up for her and how she uses it.
 
Ok...so lets measure the pro's and con's of both setups for ocean, wreck and cave diving. Which will stand out as "universal" setup for all environment?
 
Ok...so lets measure the pro's and con's of both setups for ocean, wreck and cave diving. Which will stand out as "universal" setup for all environment?

I think it's been made pretty clear here, and elsewhere, that there never will be a "universal" setup for ALL environments. Both setups cater to different divers for different reasons and different conditions. Try it out and see if it works for you.
 
Ok...so lets measure the pro's and con's of both setups for ocean, wreck and cave diving. Which will stand out as "universal" setup for all environment?

Here's how I approach it. I always dive BM doubles unless sidemount is required for the environment. Truth be told, if it were me (having been down all three paths, BM, SM, & CCR) I grab the LP85 doubles, and SM only if desperately needed and the rebreather fills all the gaps (I don't wanna carry doubles gap, it's not going to be enough air gap, the I don't wanna waste deco gas gap, the water is cold deco is going to suck gap, etc..)

Buy yourself some LP85s with a doubles manifold and plugs. This way these tanks are ready to go optimized for either sidemount with L/R valves, doubles with a set of bands, just make sure the burst disks will be "ready" for overhead.

You'd be set like you can't even imagine regardless of what you decide.
 
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