Does the perception of crime or safety affect your travel plans?

[Cajuncru Diver]

Ok- now that you have convinced me it's "safe" to go, one last question. What are the Quarrantine regulations for Bonaire, I want to bring my security guard with me

 

[Cave Diver]

i am fairly certain that a couple others would prefer it if we added a bunch of non-related issues to cloud their argument. Maybe we should ask those 3 or 4 people here. What is the maximum number of options that we can have?

12...

 

[shortcuts]

Here is my take on the question.

I try to eliminate the perception of conditions where ever I am traveling and get to the actual conditions as they exist now. Any time I am going somewhere new I research it as much as I can, both on the internet and talking with anyone I know who has been there. I look at the overall responses I get, taking into account that unhappy people, for what ever reason tend to rant and rave about even the littlest of issues while happy people tend to overlook things that might irritate others. It’s well know in sales that 1 unhappy customer, regardless of the reason is worth a 1000 happy ones. I also realize that personal preferences add or detract from the overall opinion of a place in any given post. With that information, while I read and consider all accounts on both ends of the spectrum I give less weight to grossly positive or negative information, both are likely filled with more emotion than fact. I also look at the credibility of the information, giving more weight to some and less to others. Is the information first hand, second hand, hearsay, last weeks information or something from 5 years ago. For example, a new diver on his first trip raving about how great or terrible a place was holds a lot less weight with me than a well traveled diver who has much more experience. I don’t completely dismiss the new diver but enthusiasm or for that matter unrealistic expectations will play a large part in their perspective of the place or event, they do not have the perspective and experience to compare a new place that an experienced diver does. With all that in mind, I look over all the information I have and in my mind build a general trend, either good or bad and make my decision based on that, realizing that the truth will lay somewhere between the 2 extremes. My job is to determine where that point is…..His story, her story and the truth that lays somewhere in between

Lets apply that logic to the current Bonaire threads on SB.
We basically have one major poster who has very little island experience and by his own admission had no problems while on island several years ago, who is posting mostly hearsay, old information or personal opinion with no reasonable information to back up his claims. On the other hand we have at least 6 to 10 well traveled posters with many many hours of island time and most with recent island experience, all of whom pretty much agree about the conditions and risk of traveling to Bonaire. None of which is saying it’s prefect or totally without it’s problems but who can and IMO do give a fairly realistic picture of the current conditions on the island. It’s up to the reader to decide which to give the most credibility to and make their decision based on their interpretation of the credibility of the information they find

May I say that when I became involved in this thread yesterday I was actually trying to do just what you advocate in your post and research as I was about to book a trip to Bonaire. And I believe that Most of the others were doing the same thing.

I will give the benefit of any doubt that my simple input was misunderstood in some way or that I had not explained myself properly. That having been said the thread then seemed to become distinctly personal and, at times, quite nasty. Not all of which was directed toward me but a fair bit was.

Hopefully this has now calmed somewhat and things can return to a state of mutual respect for one another.

Your post makes good sense.

Let's hope that everybody stays safe, wherever you travel.

 

[Cajuncru Diver]

Yes, since things seem to have calmed down a bit, I think that I will reconsider my security force, possibly comply more with reasonable weight restrictions and bring an alternative securiity guard.

 

[ScubaSteve]

May I say that when I became involved in this thread yesterday I was actually trying to do just what you advocate in your post and research as I was about to book a trip to Bonaire. And I believe that Most of the others were doing the same thing.

I will give the benefit of any doubt that my simple input was misunderstood in some way or that I had not explained myself properly. That having been said the thread then seemed to become distinctly personal and, at times, quite nasty. Not all of which was directed toward me but a fair bit was.

Hopefully this has now calmed somewhat and things can return to a state of mutual respect for one another.

Your post makes good sense.

Let's hope that everybody stays safe, wherever you travel.

You play a good Martyr.

Taken from the other thread.

Guys I have been monitoring this thread for a while now and have to say that I'm really quite dissappointed. My wife and I were planning to make our first trip to Bonaire this year. We have travelled and dived all over the world (literally) and so know how to be aware and look out for our own safety whilst travelling. The operative phrase being "whilst travelling".

My concern here is that when staying somewhere (particularly a resort) it is my opinion that the resort owners/management staff have a "Duty of Care" toward their clients in terms of security of the clients and their belongings whilst on the complex. This responsibility seems to be becoming largely ignored by the resorts. (From what I'm reading here).

Unfortunately, totally as a result of reading this thread, I am going to have to rethink my plans and take my dive holiday elsewhere.
I regard that as sad because I have been looking forward to experiencing what I am assured is excellent diving available in Bonaire.

It isn't just the thought of my property going missing even though I have taken all reasonable precautions but we have all heard of tourists getting up in the night for whatever reason and inadvertantly stumbling in to somebody who has found his way into your accommadation. Now the resort owners surely should be able to stop ANY undesirable from entering the complex area 24/7. Not too much to ask for is it.

I wanted to say more but I'm struggling to express myself fully and don't want to leave too many avenues for my thoughts to be misconstrued and thereby misunderstood.

Have fun people. Travel and dive safely. Good luck.

This certainly is your perogative. I agree that there is a duty of care (I do not know that the legal term actually applies but we will use it because you did) owed by the hotel or resort operators. You are assuming that they did not offer that. In lots of places, this very duty of care applies (not just on Bonaire contrary to what Pilot Fish would have you believe) and thieves find ways around it all over the place. A house just down the street from one of our rental properties (not on Bonaire PiFi so settle down) was broken into last week by three men and the owners were held at gun point while they were robbed and then the 3 men left. Is this acceptable? Absolutely not. Am I going to over react like some here? Absolutely not. Does the fact that this happened mean that the police are NOT doinf anything about it? Absolutely not. This crime does not mean that most people will stop visiting that city. Those that choose not to.....good on ya. But I digress.

It is your choice to travel elsewhere. You feel uncomfortable and want to travel somewhere else? You are freeing up a spot for two other divers which is an OK situation by me.

Exactly what I meant by having my post missunderstood. But I'm glad that all is ok with you. That is what is obviously important after all!!!!

How exactly did I misunderstand your post? You chose not to go which is OK (is it not?) and that frees up spots for other divers (does it not?). What part of this is unacceptable? Or are you not happy with the fact that I am alright with you changing your plans and not visiting Bonaire?

Just your attitude my friend. I was VERY much looking forward to coming but for stumbling across this thread!

If your "it frees up two spaces" attitude is common amongst the operators also then perhaps we can now see why this situation has been allowed to get to the stage that it has. How many people such as me can the area sustain before something is done to make visiting divers feel safe to come and dive Bonaire I wonder!

Fair enough. It is too bad that I cannot fill those 2 spots this time. I am fairly certain that you will enjoy your crime free life vacationing elsewhere.

Or are you not happy with the fact that I am alright with you changing your plans and not visiting Bonaire?

Looks like this was the case after all.

You joined the thread yesterday to advertise that your mind was made up that you were not going to Bonaire because of the crime issue. To me it appears you took exception to the fact that I did not immediately change my mind once you had posted.

 

[Cajuncru Diver]

Well now things seem to be heating up just a bit, and I know that it may be a tall order to "oversee" this problem, so it's time to bring in new reserves

 

[herman]

Herman: I totally agree with all you have posted, but I do have one question..........aside from all the bs about 1 or 2 incidents that have occured in the past, I am lead to understand that when one leaves his vehicle to go diving its common knowledge that you should leave the windows down and nothing in the vehicle, that if you lock the vehicle you will almost always find upon your return smashed window and rifled vehicle and everyone is warned of this........is this the reality of shore diving there or is that another 'urban legend"?

Almost always is the operable word here, in my experience no. While it's no urban legend, neither is being hit by a meteorite, it's a matter of perceived risk vs. actual risk. DeputyDan myself were on the island a few weeks ago for 10 days , right in the middle of most of this noise. We got to talking about it and started looking around at the sites we dove from Nucove in the north to Vista Blue in the south. I spent some SIs walking around looking for glass, I found 4 piles at Andrea II, none anywhere else. As we talked about them we both remember seeing them for several years back, remember glass does not rot or move much if not cleaned up by someone. These are gravel parking spaces so it pretty much stays in place. Now I am sure there is some I did not see but if every truck that is parked has it's window smashed there would be more glass on the ground. That is not to say if you leave a truck closed it will not be hit, it may but my experienced opinion is the odds are it will not but why ask for problems. Leaving it unlocked is a tried and true way to prevent the problem and there is simply on real reason to lock it, there is nothing to take anyway. On this last trip as an experiment, on every dive I put my pants out in plain site in the back of the truck and my shoes in plain site on the ground by the truck in a manner that I could tell if they had been disturbed, in 20 dives they were not touched. There were other diver around some times, some times locals fishing and at times no one to be seen.
No one will honestly tell you there are no problems, burglaries do happen and at times truck are searched, but it is no where near the extent some would have you believe nor are other places immune to crime, it happens everywhere. I dive all over the island and have stayed in large resorts, small resorts and a private home over the last 11 years, totaling somewhere in the 500 plus person/days on island (person/days= days myself or those directly with me are on island- no second hand info or stories from strangers). So far we have had zero problems. My friends and I are either very lucky or the problem is not nearly as bad as some would have you believe- you decide.

 

[grouchyturtle]

If the Bonaire crime risk is to high for you to visit there - the how the hell can you manage living in a place like the United States?

NO S***! The problem is people are afraid of what they're not familiar with when often times those things are even safer than what they live with every day.

Case in point:

While you should not live your life in fear, you should not go out of your way to flirt with danger and put yourself and family in harms way. Your choice

Is this for real? Very few things burn my *** more than having something stolen from me. But using the term "in harms way" is a HUGE stretch. I guarantee you were much more in harms way, living in NYC all those years then you were for a week or two on Bonaire. But living there you're whole life you didn't think twice about it.

I'll avoid taking my boat through Venezuela, as it's one of the few places in the world where there is still piracy. Just a year or two ago 2 couples were sailing down there and one man was shot and killed on the deck of his own boat. If it wasn't for the quick reaction of one of the others to grab the shotgun from below deck, all 4 would likely be dead today. Now that's something I would consider appropriate for the term "in harms way".

BTW - I just had a computer go MIA in Coz...the so called safest place for divers from a few posts back. May have just fallen off a boat, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that it was stolen either off the boat or back at the dive shop. Also had a brand new mask and snorkel stolen from me the last time I was there. Would I go back? Hell yeah! May even sail down there next winter. Free diving anyone? Crime exists everywhere.

 

[drl]

We put a deposit down on a Bonaire trip last weekend--then I heard about the burglaries, and I am considering whether we should cancel and give up the deposit. Worrying about your t-shirt and flip-flops (not to mention the spare tire) being stolen from the truck is bad enough, but burglary is an order of magnitude worse.
Folks may go on about "personal responsibility" and "common sense," but if locking your room and putting valuables in the safe isn't an adequate precaution because the thieves crowbar the locks off and the safes off the wall, what other options are there?
Anybody know where I can rent a large, mean dog? ;-)

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

We put a deposit down on a Bonaire trip last weekend--then I heard about the burglaries, and I am considering whether we should cancel and give up the deposit. Worrying about your t-shirt and flip-flops (not to mention the spare tire) being stolen from the truck is bad enough, but burglary is an order of magnitude worse.
Folks may go on about "personal responsibility" and "common sense," but if locking your room and putting valuables in the safe isn't an adequate precaution because the thieves crowbar the locks off and the safes off the wall, what other options are there?
Anybody know where I can rent a large, mean dog? ;-)

Are you booking into a compound lodging area Like BuddyDive, the Plaza or a number of other resort areas... or, are you booking into a small villa away from the shore area?