Right ON bengalsmgtsucks. It is amazing what people to just to save a buck. Have your reg serviced professionally; have peace of mind and perhaps save your own life.
Do You Service Your Own Regs?
- Thread starter Stone
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OK I am going to throw this out in order to play devils advocate.
We are all very concerned with our own lives and we want to make sure that any thing that we need to live is in proper working order and I may be wrong but it is my understanding that if you take a few hours of class at DEMA or with a rep you will be certified as a tech for what ever brand of reg you take the class for. Now I would love to have the opportunity to take this class (hint to a certain someone on the board) but does a few hours training qualify you as a professional that is assumably infinately better able to service a reg.
This is just to spark conversation. Please take it that way.
Chad
We are all very concerned with our own lives and we want to make sure that any thing that we need to live is in proper working order and I may be wrong but it is my understanding that if you take a few hours of class at DEMA or with a rep you will be certified as a tech for what ever brand of reg you take the class for. Now I would love to have the opportunity to take this class (hint to a certain someone on the board) but does a few hours training qualify you as a professional that is assumably infinately better able to service a reg.
This is just to spark conversation. Please take it that way.
Chad
Just a point for the naysayers.
If you can change your oil, you can service your regulator. The statement "it's life support equipment" is an excuse by your dive-shop and manufacturers to gouge you for more money.
I trust myself to do a better job of servicing my regulator than the guy who has taken a 1-hour course at DEMA to do a good job. Plus, my new Apeks is about as easy to service as you can get. Both the first and second stages are designed to be easy to service (certainly the second stage is *MUCH* easier to service that both the ScubaPro and USD 2nd stages the Apeks replaced).
Having just slammed the LDSs, I have to say that the owner of my LDS sat me down and walked me through the servicing of the USD 2nd stage, and we're going to be doing a USD 1st stage in the near future. He also let me borrow his tools so that I could overhaul my SP, which hadn't been touched in ~20 years. (I got them from a relative who used them for his open waters, and then never used them again.)
Regulator servicing is *really* *really* *really* simple, and even though it's life-support equipment, there's very little a trained serviceman knows that you can't. Plus, when you do it yourself, you're *more* motivated to get it right than he is, especially if he does a bunch of them.
However, if you're the type to have someone else change your oil, fix your mower, and other maintenance on your stuff, then by all means take it somewhere. Although, I'm betting that service I give my regulators is both cheaper *and* better done than the service you get at your LDS.
Nate
If you can change your oil, you can service your regulator. The statement "it's life support equipment" is an excuse by your dive-shop and manufacturers to gouge you for more money.
I trust myself to do a better job of servicing my regulator than the guy who has taken a 1-hour course at DEMA to do a good job. Plus, my new Apeks is about as easy to service as you can get. Both the first and second stages are designed to be easy to service (certainly the second stage is *MUCH* easier to service that both the ScubaPro and USD 2nd stages the Apeks replaced).
Having just slammed the LDSs, I have to say that the owner of my LDS sat me down and walked me through the servicing of the USD 2nd stage, and we're going to be doing a USD 1st stage in the near future. He also let me borrow his tools so that I could overhaul my SP, which hadn't been touched in ~20 years. (I got them from a relative who used them for his open waters, and then never used them again.)
Regulator servicing is *really* *really* *really* simple, and even though it's life-support equipment, there's very little a trained serviceman knows that you can't. Plus, when you do it yourself, you're *more* motivated to get it right than he is, especially if he does a bunch of them.
However, if you're the type to have someone else change your oil, fix your mower, and other maintenance on your stuff, then by all means take it somewhere. Although, I'm betting that service I give my regulators is both cheaper *and* better done than the service you get at your LDS.
Nate
As I said in my post, if you know what you are doing and have the equipment to do it then fine do it. The regulator is a simple device so it will be simple to service IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. Otherwise if it was not simple and was labor intensive, the LDS would charge $100 to service it. That would be a problem for many people then. Probably more people would not service it.
Uh, the point of this thread was not whether or not the servicing of regs by non-professionals was a good thing. Stone, I and others would not let another human being touch our regs for precisely the reasons some of you give to have it professionally done!
The LDS has NO -NADA- -ZILCH- -SQUAT on the line when they so casually "overhaul" my regs. I only have my BUTT on the line... so who has a greatest motive to do it right??? I don't let ANYONE touch my regs except me... with the possible exception of letting them merely use them. The last set of regs I had "professionally serviced" sucked in water at 60 ffw!!! It wasn't fun, and I was a DM for an entire class, so I didn't have the option of aborting the dive. That was the day I learned the drawbacks of an integrated reg/inflator. When I examined the reg closely, I found it was NOT a technical problem... it wasn't a part in backwards... it was a "make the deformed purge cover fit" 'cause I really don't care what happens to the poor schmuck breathing on it problem. That overhaul cost me $165. Did they think I wouldn't spring for another $12.80 to have it done right the FIRST TIME??? Add to this the fact that my LDS does not even own a magnehelic gauge while I own an oldie, and am ordering a second... No, I will give them their money in other ways... NO ONE TOUCHES MY REGS BUT ME!
So please, if you want to add to the knowledge base then please do so... where to get parts, info, tools, helpful hints, etc. are all great and welcome. But if you want to tell those of us who have had it with LDSes to let the "pros" do it, then search out the "other" threads where that issue is being debated. Comment there, and leave this one for what it was intended for... sharing of information germane to rebuilding/maintaining regs.
Sorry... end of rant...
The LDS has NO -NADA- -ZILCH- -SQUAT on the line when they so casually "overhaul" my regs. I only have my BUTT on the line... so who has a greatest motive to do it right??? I don't let ANYONE touch my regs except me... with the possible exception of letting them merely use them. The last set of regs I had "professionally serviced" sucked in water at 60 ffw!!! It wasn't fun, and I was a DM for an entire class, so I didn't have the option of aborting the dive. That was the day I learned the drawbacks of an integrated reg/inflator. When I examined the reg closely, I found it was NOT a technical problem... it wasn't a part in backwards... it was a "make the deformed purge cover fit" 'cause I really don't care what happens to the poor schmuck breathing on it problem. That overhaul cost me $165. Did they think I wouldn't spring for another $12.80 to have it done right the FIRST TIME??? Add to this the fact that my LDS does not even own a magnehelic gauge while I own an oldie, and am ordering a second... No, I will give them their money in other ways... NO ONE TOUCHES MY REGS BUT ME!
So please, if you want to add to the knowledge base then please do so... where to get parts, info, tools, helpful hints, etc. are all great and welcome. But if you want to tell those of us who have had it with LDSes to let the "pros" do it, then search out the "other" threads where that issue is being debated. Comment there, and leave this one for what it was intended for... sharing of information germane to rebuilding/maintaining regs.
Sorry... end of rant...
OP
Stone
Contributor
In some cases, the only thing "professional" about the guy who sevices your reg is that he gets paid. LDSs send their people to the same reg repair certification classes I go to, and I've seen guys in those classes (with my own eyes) that don't have the mechanical ability of my 14-year-old son. Some of those people are the "professionals" working (or practicing) on your regs. As for "saving a buck", I may break even this year (and that's just because I have 5 regs). If I buy an ultrasonic cleaner (hey, NetDoc), I won't break even 'til next year. If I buy another brand of reg (and it requires yet another batch of special tools), I won't break even 'til the year after that.
OP
Stone
Contributor
Guess where the instructor from my last class got the 48 first and second stages for the class to work on?
They were regs that were dorked up by the "professionals". :blush:
The instructor told us this to point out how you can screw up a regulator by using the wrong tools or forcing parts.
P.P.S
No offense is intended to the competent professionals out there.
They were regs that were dorked up by the "professionals". :blush:
The instructor told us this to point out how you can screw up a regulator by using the wrong tools or forcing parts.
P.P.S
No offense is intended to the competent professionals out there.
Howdy all,
Pistons are easy to work on. CAN ANY NON-PROFESSIONAL IN HERE explain to me why you might need to sonic clean parts of the 1st stage???????????? Maybe a couple of you but NO, most of you do not know why. The courses or seminars at DEMA can run only a few hours however; ALL professionals have put 100's of hours of servicing in at the shop. Unfortunetly there are some bad apples out there in the "Professional" world that do a POOR job at repairing regs. Also, NOT all dive shops try to rape you on the price of the annual. Sure, some do but not all. Shop around.
Also, I can't believe someone compared changing oil to repairing a reg. A retarded monkey can change oil and filter. The regs are a bit more complex. At least the balanced diaphragms are. Pistons are again easy. And yes, LOW END second stages and a snap to work on.
For those of you who wish to venture out on you own and service you own gear, Good luck with your adventures, YOUR NOT MY BUDDY.
Pistons are easy to work on. CAN ANY NON-PROFESSIONAL IN HERE explain to me why you might need to sonic clean parts of the 1st stage???????????? Maybe a couple of you but NO, most of you do not know why. The courses or seminars at DEMA can run only a few hours however; ALL professionals have put 100's of hours of servicing in at the shop. Unfortunetly there are some bad apples out there in the "Professional" world that do a POOR job at repairing regs. Also, NOT all dive shops try to rape you on the price of the annual. Sure, some do but not all. Shop around.
Also, I can't believe someone compared changing oil to repairing a reg. A retarded monkey can change oil and filter. The regs are a bit more complex. At least the balanced diaphragms are. Pistons are again easy. And yes, LOW END second stages and a snap to work on.
For those of you who wish to venture out on you own and service you own gear, Good luck with your adventures, YOUR NOT MY BUDDY.
OP
Stone
Contributor
bengalsmgtsucks,
Even if you're asking a rhetorical question, I'll give an answer for the benefit of others reading this thread.
I'm a non-professional, but I know how to listen and learn. The best reason I've heard for using an ultrasonic cleaner has to do with the fact that (during the plating process) the chrome deposited on the brass is significantly thinner in the bore of the first stage. Even a weak cleaning solution of 50/50 vinegar/H2O can, over time, remove the chrome and can lead to increasing problems with corrosion in the areas of the first stage that are the hardest to reach.
A decent ultrasonic cleaner may be able to clean a first stage (without an acid solution) better in 3 minutes than a 30 minute soak in a 50/50 mix.
The reg tech working on your gear might be using %100 vinegar (or worse, leave it soaking overnight) and you wouldn't know.
If you don't know who is working on your reg, you might want to find out.
As are newer diaphragms. I've found older 2nd stages are the *hardest* to work on, but only because it's a pain to tune them well, cause my hands have a hard time contorting with the dinky screwdriver.
Never taken a course in my life, and I've only had a professional (my LDS owner) walk me through a rebuild of a USD 2nd stage, so I certainly don't consider myself a professional.
Assuming I understand the question correctly, the 'easy' answer is that clean == good, dirty == bad.
More specifically, there are a couple of reasons that come to mind easily. To remove oil/contaminants from the system, which is necessary to avoid bacteria and other growth in the system. Plus, all of the parts that move work/seal better when they don't have stuff caked on them. Cleaning is also a *really* good idea if you use Nitrox as well, although it's not strictly necessary unless you are using high percentages of O2 (> 40%). This is less important for the 2nd stage, since the pressures are so much less than in the 1st stage.
Or are you asking why use sonic cleaning vs. scrubbing the stuff off? That's even more obvious.
1) Most regulators are made of soft metal, so you can't use anything hard to get gunk off (like a wire brush) without ruining the metal.
2) It's nearly impossible to get to all the cracks and crevices in regulators, and sonic cleaning loosens things up, due to the movement of the fluid as well as due to the solvent properties of the fluid. (However, one must be careful and only use proper solvents, as well as not leave them soaking too long, since otherwise you could actually eat into the metal.)
I could get into more details, but I doubt it would make any difference.
Methinks you place way too little faith in people. People who are willing to fix their regulators are often more mechanically inclined/talented than many folks who actually fix regulators for a living.
Unless this a *huge* dive shop, I doubt this very much. Most of the regulator technicians I've seen are right out of high-school. Working on regulators in a dive shop is not a high-paying glamorous job. When they can find a better job (one that pays higher than minimum wage), they'll take it. Enter the new regulator tech, who starts over from scratch.
That's why the newer regulators (like my Apeks) can be serviced by a 10 year old.
Not my Apeks, nor my USD Conshelf. Both have balanced diaphragm first stages, and the Apeks is also a balanced 2nd stage, while the USD is a basic downstream.
Maybe I should have compared working on regulators to something *simpler* than changing oil, since in my opinion, it takes *more* talent to change the oil than to service my regulator.
This is where we can agree to disagree. I find my LOW END second stages *harder* to work on than my Apeks (which I consider HIGH END). But, that's not because the former are more complex, but because they weren't designed to be easy to work on. The latter are more complex, but are designed to be easy to work on by anyone.
Sorry that you feel that way. IMO, being a good buddy has very little to do with servicing your own gear. However, a good buddy is someone who pays attention to details, and someone who works on their own gear is probably someone who is more concerned about their own life (and hopefully mine) than someone who buys gear at a shop and does their own servicing.
Nate
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