Do you pay double just to support LDS?

[Thraz]

It made me want to cry when I saw where your from haha. I went through the same thing not even two weeks ago.

I won't call out any names in this thread but I did my open water at the dive shop with the really nice break water location and the girl that taught me was pretty cool (she was brand new to the store). Since then I have rented gear at least once or twice a week for $65/time every week for just over a year. One of the other employees that works there is nice too, but she is really, really pushy about me spending my money. Over time the new girl seems to be turning the same way so they must get harassed to reach certain money targets or something.

That being said, I have finally decided to buy my own gear. I used scuba board to research every little thing about my gear choices that I wanted and it was finally time to hit the local dive shops and make some purchases. I had a list of items and what the prices were on leisure pro and scuba toys, just so that I had some information on the going rates.

First shop I hit was the same one that makes my fusion bullet. The guy seemed really well informed and I liked how professional he was with me. The problem was the only items he sold that I wanted were the whites heat hood, dry gloves, evo 3, and mk3. I did let him know the other items I was considering so he could give me some opinions on the comparible items that he sold. In the end, I still only wanted the items I had chosen but the price difference between the net and his store was about $450. I suggested price difference and tried to barter without seeming like a douche but he was having none of it and it didn't make enough sense to buy locally.

Next I went to a store I have never been in before, just off the highway as you are driving into town. I wanted to purchase a halcyon eclipse and they were the local sellers. He gave me a presentation about them and I let him know that I had done a lot of research on both price and equipment. I also let him know about the other items I wanted to purchase but he wasn't able to talk me into his brand. He informed me that he would have to order the bcd in and the price he gave me was only $40 more then the internet. Was so happy I paid for it right there.

The final store that I went to was the one I rent my gear from and did my course. They had the mk25/a700 that I wanted. The r395, the dive computer, fins, and the dive knife I had me eye on. Right away their eyes lit up with dollar signs and they started grabbing all the gear for me to purchase. Then when I said that I had done a lot of research and the prices seem to be over twice as much, they didn't want to play ball at all. A few reasons such as the where would you get your air and stuff came up but discounts seem to be out of the question. In the end, I purchased them online and saved over $1300 on the mk25/a700, r395, icon hd, and smoke on the water fins.

I really wanted to shop locally and I do understand the costs of maintaining a dive store but $1800 is a lot of money in my pocket. It seems strange to me that I can purchase items made right here in Victoria for cheaper from the east coast of the states. Also, with having all my own gear now, I'm hoping the dive shop will start treating me as me instead of bag of money again.

I understand your wanting to support locally but believe me, less then two weeks later I'm well over it and almost $2000 richer for it Just my 2 cents on the subject.

 

[redacted]

No need to go back and forth on this one but I can see the price before I try an item on. I have a personal ethical issue with using the LDS as a fitting room for online purchases. I'll dicker before trying if there may be an issue.

Interesting approach but I see some limitations. Do you shop for cars in the same way? That is settle on a price before close examination and test drive with the salesman hovering over you.

I don't particularly like to dicker prices. And it can be a particularly unpleasant experience in a dive shop where a customer who wants to seek a more competitive price is often met with hostility. Why risk having to put up with such hostility unnecessarily?

The problem is many shops are known to deal with their marked prices for some customers. Even Scubapro and Aqualung have set the stage for price negotiations in their dealer agreements. So, unlike most retail stores, the marked price may well not be the price you need to pay if you are willing to ask for a better deal. It is easy to tell which shops have firm marked prices. They have a sign on the wall that says "All prices as marked." And the trying on, like the test drive, is all part of the sales process. It gives both the buyer and the seller an opportunity to settle on the right deal, assuming both have a bit of bargaining room.

 

[ColdH2O]

I really wanted to shop locally and I do understand the costs of maintaining a dive store but $1800 is a lot of money in my pocket. It seems strange to me that I can purchase items made right here in Victoria for cheaper from the east coast of the states. Also, with having all my own gear now, I'm hoping the dive shop will start treating me as me instead of bag of money again.

I understand your wanting to support locally but believe me, less then two weeks later I'm well over it and almost $2000 richer for it Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Well I guess I'm not crazy! Lol. Yes it's pretty bad when something that is mamufactured just dowm the road is cheaper to buy completely across the country after it was exported, shipped, and marked up, then shipped across the country again, re-imported and still cheaper than walking there and buying the same thing! Something is very wrong here! All of that even when our dollar is stronger than the US right now!

 

[Starcruiser]

My philosophy has always been to give the LDS the business if the prices are close. I'd much rather be able to go into the shop I bought from and gripe about something that doesn't work right, than to have to chat with someone in Bangalore or Bejing about returning / replacing the item. That said, I don't make a fortune, so I do my research before I go to the shop. I will go to the shop that sells what I want, and compare prices. If they can come close (they don't have to match, but make the effort) I'll buy it from them. If they're firm on not negotiating, then they lose the sale. I've seen the big laminated signs about getting air from the internet and not covering warranty, but the LDS, and their supplier, need to understand competition. Obviously the gray-market goods come from 'somewhere' at a lower price...

 

[spectrum]

Interesting approach but I see some limitations. Do you shop for cars in the same way? That is settle on a price before close examination and test drive with the salesman hovering over you.

For the dollars involved the car is dickered on after driving it and I can't say I'd pledge allegiance to the demonstrating dealer. Interesting analogy but they are really apples and oranges, at least to me. If I get into a wetsuit I'm relying on research and experience to know I have the right one. Fit is being confirmed. Test driving a car is an investigation into many more aspects.

I don't particularly like to dicker prices. And it can be a particularly unpleasant experience in a dive shop where a customer who wants to seek a more competitive price is often met with hostility. Why risk having to put up with such hostility unnecessarily?

Dickering for a car is sport. The times I have asked dive shops to compete they have done well by me. I only do so when there's a meaningful difference. Generally they bring enough added value to the table to justify the difference.

A car dealer is.... a car dealer to me (sorry folks). A dive shop owner or worker is probably someone I have a level of friendship with.

The problem is many shops are known to deal with their marked prices for some customers. Even Scubapro and Aqualung have set the stage for price negotiations in their dealer agreements. So, unlike most retail stores, the marked price may well not be the price you need to pay if you are willing to ask for a better deal. It is easy to tell which shops have firm marked prices. They have a sign on the wall that says "All prices as marked." And the trying on, like the test drive, is all part of the sales process. It gives both the buyer and the seller an opportunity to settle on the right deal, assuming both have a bit of bargaining room.

I will say that in my market the choices have been shop/WWW. Rarely have I been in a shop/shop competitive situation. I can see where that could be a little different.

Sometimes it just comes down to who I want to give my business to. Who has been going above and beyond?

It's a complex situation. With all of the attitudes, relationship and values involved there is no one right answer.

Pete

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Man, this whole LDS vs online debate will never end.
It is a prickly and complex subject.

I can tell you where I'm at with the whole thing. First, I don't know if LDS's charge quite double, it maybe used to be that way but now I'm seeing online prices at an average of 15 to 25% lower at least with the LDS's in my area.

The truth of the matter is I pretty much have all the gear I need and more. With what I know now it would be pretty hard to buy everything I use from an LDS simply because they don't carry the stuff I use. If they did carry my stuff and I had to pay an extra 15 to 25% it would depend on the economy and my work load being I am self employed.
If I had the money and the the people at the LDS were friends and dive buddies then yeah I would buy from them.

With the direction that I've moved in diving, unfortunately with an LDS no matter how much I would be willing to pay, won't be able to help me much for exception of very few items which I am more than willing to buy from them.

I use stuff like a custom made commercial grade wetsuits that I can only get from a builder in Souther California, BTW I pay way more for those than any wetsuit at a LDS.
I'm into using older regs like double hoses, old Scubapro regs that I like to rebuild myself as a hobby, my weights I cast myself out of tire weights (but I did buy the molds at an LDS), My wetsuit socks I make myself out of old wetsuits I get at garage sales and cut apart for the neoprene, my Freedom backplate I make myself, I use an Oxycheq wing which is not available at my LDS and they won't order it even if I tried, my oloder steel 72's I get used from all over-LDS doesn't have those. I like big old school dive knives and got a great AL Sea Hawk from a friend who gave it to me - not available from an LDS, stainless bolt snaps that they don't carry.

Some things I did buy from my LDS are SP jet fins, spear gun bands, booties, an oval mask that I couldn't find online, a MK2/R190 I got a few years ago. Other things like O ring kits,
wetsuit glue, gloves, and a few big HP steel tanks.

I used to get air from my local LDS but they told me that they lose money on air fills and customers like me drain them out because I don't buy much other stuff.
So now I go to a different LDS up on the coast that is happy to sell me air fills.
I don't want to upset and be a burdon to my local LDS and put them out of business by just buying air fills and a few other little trinkets I need.

 

[CuNanoTube]

I should note that all the major dive centers in my area have online stores.
The shop I normally buy from is a little cheaper than the online stores in my area, but I can support my closest LDS by buying online.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Another thing.

From what I know most online sellers are also brick and mortar shops.
Leisure Pro has a store in NYC, Scubatoys has a regular store in TX, North East Scuba Supply has a walk in store, Dolphin Scuba Center in Sacramento sells online and has a great store.

Any LDS could have done this if they had the foresight and business sense to see where the market was going and the type of gear that online buyers buy. It's not my fault that small LDS owners decided to pretend the internet didn't exist for so long before they popped their heads up out of the sand to see all their customers gone.
It's not even a price thing as much as it's a gear style thing. Don't they pay attention to what people are using? They are supposed to be the pros! Now people who hang out online on the different forums are going into LDS's and educating them on what's hip.

If they think I'm going to go back to a poodle jacket and split fins and buy a new set of brand new gear every two years at top dollar just to support them and their obsolete business model they're nuts!

 

[Mike]

I am just saying, how can 2 shops 50 miles apart be that different on prices? Obviously something is wrong!

The only thing wroing is you're living in bubble or something.

I can dirve 1 block and see a difference in the price of a gallon of gas. I will buy the exact same model of new car for 10 different prices at 10 different dealerships.

I don't know how it is where you are but the cost of living changes everywhere you go, the same house costs 30% or more difference in 5 miles depending where its located.

Why you think every dive shop or any retail store for that matter has to charge the same for everything, has the same expenses, the same overhead, the same rent the same labor , or the same profit motive, as every other dive shop I have no idea other then you aren't very aware of how things work in this world.

Socialism doesn't work, not even in dive shops apparently.

There isn't anything obviously wrong with two different dive shops selling the same item for different prices, that's call a free market economy. You're very free to spend your dollars where ever you want.

 

[OrnithO]

I am from Geneva and there are not many dive shops around... I looked to their (usually poorly designed) websites and the prices are not 2 but 3 to 4 times more expensive than online and 2 times more expensive than scuba stores in the USA (scubatoys, sport chalet,...)
Plus they don't have a very wide range of gear so you are very limited.
That's why I will buy my gear online, except for the wetsuit, gloves,... that I have to try before.
But I'm going to California this summer and I will go in shops there because it's cheaper for me. (Everything is more expensive in Switzerland...)