do you ever notice negativity between dive shops?

[JS1scuba]

I've been in the world of professional selling for more than 30 years. As a teen I worked in the highly competitive camera industry in NYC (32nd street / Broadway) where there were competitive shops in a 2 block radius that amounted for 80% of the entire NYC camera market. Every top sales guy had the phone number of the top sales guy at the competitors. If Phil did not have X camera for his customer he was on the phone to Tom and they sent a runner to get it while customer waited. It was a very interesting way of working.

I run both a Retail Operation (Scuba Training and Technology Inc.) and an on-line operation (Tech Diving Limited) (one of the original on-line companies) competition is healthy. If I don't have it - I will direct a customer to another guy (Like Phil) so that the customer can get what he wants.

Are there some operations that are just plain bad. Sure there are. Just like bad restaurants and service stations there will always be someone not good at something they try to do. The mistake they make is not trying to get better once they know they need to change. In the end it all washes out.

LDS loyalty is important. It helps build the camaraderie that's needed for the sport and is important for your local community. Buying local is always a good thing (if the local guy knows that). On-line shopping is important too. It provides access to items your local shop just wont/cant carry. The combination of both works. I have many of my loyal locals bring in stuff they got on line and we treat it as if it came from us. Why? Because a customer should always feel good about what they purchased. I've even had them ask me about this or that from here or there and we give them honest answers. I learned a long time ago that if I can't get the sale for whatever reason, leave the door open for someone else to.

Positive promotion of diving among dive professionals should be the standard behavior. If you can't say something good best to say nothing.

Cheers

 

[Carlos Danger]

I have definitely experienced the bad-blood thing between shops while on trips, and here on SB, but not so much in my home area. However, once I ran into the owner of a local Shop-A while I was paying a visit to another local Shop-B. The owner of Shop-A and I both stopped and looked at each other, like, "...WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IN HERE???". For a while after that I would always get the cold shoulder attitude from Shop-A whenever I stopped in.

 

[Scott]

I've lived through the best of times and the very worst within a couple of our communities. I honestly feel that the current owners/managers locally work well together. The few operators that were the worst are gone or moving on, along with most of their instructors.
Our area, entire state actually, is rich in year round recreational opportunities already; the dive community is small in comparison. I just hope our community continues to see who the real competition is.

In another 'valley' the community survives, not sure how but they do, since there are a few in competition to see who can survive at the lowest possible profit margin. They claim they know who the competition is but yet each makes claims that one or the others is their best customer. Nobody has a problem throwing knives at each other. It’s one of the places where it was the best of times and the very worst of times. Right now I’m not sure to which status they are heading.

I recently had a specialty class and was asked by another store if their student could go out with me. Their scheduled instructor became ill and the others were out of town, leaving them in a bind. Did I help them out? Ab sa freaking lutly.
On they way home the group talked about other classes available, what they entailed, then suggested the other stores student talk with them about when their next one started.
I'm getting to old to play the petty back biting BS games anyway. I would rather spend my time being productive.

 

[DennisW]

There used to be two dive shops in Hampton, VA. One always badmouthed the other. It was so bad that when I went into that shop the first time, I was absolutely amazed. So, I went to the other shop. No badmouthing, just gave me good service. I went into the first shop again about a year later and it was just as bad. Another year went by and the first shop moved so I tried it again. No difference. The bad shop went out of business less than a year after they moved into the new location. It's sad because now the only competition is in Virginia Beach. I am one of those folks that thinks competition is a good thing, especially for the consumer. But, I personally would have never bought anything from the shop that constantly badmouthed their competition.

 

[Thalassamania]

It's absolutely amazing how prevalent this is and especially so the further south you go.

What we used to say in the Keys was that you lost one IQ point for every mile south of Miami you traveled, when you got stupid enough that you could no longer proceed, that's where you stopped. You gotta start out pretty bright to survive in Key West.

As far as inter-shop competition is concerned, the real "enemy" is skiing, golf, tennis, biking, boccie ball, etc.

 

[bracko]

Also...there's lots of strong personalities in scuba diving..

what an eloquent way to put it. I'm stealing it.

 

[Spimon]

I find that there is more bad mouthing of internet dealers by LDS people than other LDS. I have been told that a lot of internet retailers buy used gear and sell it as new. They also do not uphold warranties because they are not by the manufacturers etc.

I've also heard just about every story to justify why buying online is pure evil.

Here in Australia the LDS just seem to totally deny online competition! No matter what my justification for buying online is (1/3 price, massive range), they have some story or argument against it.

I can buy a Cressit Ellipse Octopus online for $109 + $30 postage.
The same product locally is $374. For the price of an annual service, I can buy a new one every year.

They really need to get over it and accept that online is legitimate competition, whether or not they like it and come up with a strategy to compete. Making the customer feel stupid for saving 2/3 of their money obviously isn't working!

 

[Bogie]

Some people act professional and some don't. I have only experienced one dive shop that bad mouths other dive shops. All the others in my area have acted professionally. I don't do any business the one dive shop and give my business to the professionally run dive shops.

I dive with positive people and do business with positive dive shops.

I always try to give my business to LDS before getting anything on line. If they can come close, I spend my money locally.

 

[peterbj7]

The sort of shop I like, and have tried to run, is one that identifies a customer's needs, then says (eg.) "I have something that will do the job, but you'd be better off getting product X which the shop down the road sells". THAT is the sort of shop that will get my business, in any sort of business.

That said, here at any rate in a resort environment it is now very difficult for any operator to survive. Profits are minimal if they exist at all. Yet amazingly most operators co-operate and don't bad-mouth each other. Mind you, they don't go as far as the shop I started this post with. "You want to go 50 miles in so-so weather, sure I can take you". Never mind that a local competitor has a far more suitable boat and will be making that trip tomorrow.

However, there are some unscrupulous operators here who routinely break safety and agency standards, and I really have to bite my lip not to tell all when asked.

As to the ever-present LDS vs. internet debate, my experience in the industry is only in this resort environment, and I can say that we can't come close to internet prices. So we end up just selling spares and things that people forgot. But in Britain, where I used to dive extensively before I set up my business here, LDSs have been going out of business on a large scale for some years, and in many cases that I know they were well run and pleasant shops. They just couldn't survive with the sort of market that was left to them - the costs of running a real shop are astronomical compared with selling over the internet from a warehouse somewhere. Consequently there are large swathes of the country where it's no longer possible to buy air. There's now no air available within well over 100 miles from one of the most popular inland dive sites, whereas there used to be several shops quite close. That trend is increasing, and getting tanks filled is now a major issue for many divers.

In my opening paragraph I had in mind a hi-fi shop which used to operate in an area with several competitors in the same town, a very useful resource. All gone now, killed by the internet. It's actually a pretty big city, and it now has no shops selling quality audio equipment. This is the inevitable result of people buying as cheaply as they can.

 

[scubafanatic]

It's an age old issue commonly referred to as: "The Tragedy of the Commons"

The tragedy of the commons is a dilemma arising from the situation in which multiple individuals, acting independently and rationally consulting their own self-interest, will ultimately deplete a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long-term interest for this to happen. This dilemma was first described in an influential article titled "The Tragedy of the Commons," written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1]

Hardin's Commons Theory is frequently cited to support the notion of sustainable development, meshing economic growth and environmental protection, and has had an effect on numerous current issues, including the debate over global warming.

Central to Hardin's article is an example (first sketched in an 1833 pamphlet by William Forster Lloyd) of a hypothetical and simplified situation based on medieval land tenure in Europe, of herders sharing a common parcel of land, on which they are each entitled to let their cows graze. In Hardin's example, it is in each herder's interest to put the next (and succeeding) cows he acquires onto the land, even if the quality of the common is temporarily or permanently damaged for all as a result, through over grazing. The herder receives all of the benefits from an additional cow, while the damage to the common is shared by the entire group. If all herders make this individually rational economic decision, the common will be depleted or even destroyed to the detriment of all.

...those who purchase on the WWW, are hoping OTHER divers will take-one-for-the-team, buy locally with THEIR $, and their overpayments (relative to WWW discounted prices) will subsidize the LDS such that they remain in business for air fills/emergency repairs/spare parts/classes for themselves...anything requiring a local/physical presence.