Do you dive with a snorkel!??

[DaleC]

Beano, Instead of hating snorkels in diving, why not learn how they can effectively enhance confidence in the water, basic learning and some diving experiences. With a balanced perspective you will then give your students something of value.

You seem to equate being familiar with snorkeling with assuming "power" over the sea. I don't get it. Who said that other than you? I've never heard an experienced skindiver claim superhuman powers and if anything, snorkeling gives one a sense of going with the flow of water - you become one with it (to get a little Zennish). Should we not wear scuba for fear of thinking we are "lairds" of the deep and swimming downwards to our demise. Relax, it's just a hollow tube that allows one to face forward and look under water while breathing.

You also seem to base your objections by how non snorkelers, introduced to their use in an OW course with poor instruction and asked to use them with poorly fitted or weighted equipment will act. Huh? What a weird way to evaluate the value of a piece of equipment. No skill, no instruction, poor setting... must be the snorkels fault.

You also seem to imply that swimming forward with a snorkel creates a lack of situational awareness. What does swimming backwards do?

Lastly, it appears you spend a lot of time baby sitting poorly skilled divers and have developed your opinions from experiences with them. Some of us are fomulating our opinions from the correct use of snorkels, in the correct settings, by people who know how to use them. If you were not personally involved in the discussion, which vantage would you say best reflects the value of a snorkel in diving? Earlier you chastised the "old farts" for not changing with the times but by your own admission, the "new farts" haven't exactly held up their end of the bargain have they.

 

[lsorenson]

Hello, I am trying to get some input on who uses snorkels and who does not. Is it safe to not dive with a snorkel? Why do people choose to not use them?

95% of the time, NO... But if there is a good chance of being lost at sea e.g. my trip to the Cocos Island; I had one strapped on my back plate... lee

 

[beanojones]

I dive with more people of all levels of experience. Snorkels are indifferent in calm places quarries. They are stupidly dangerous in the ocean in the mouth of most people, for the situation I see daily listed above. Those are people as they come to me. The Japanese I dive with don't have snorkels on because they listen to the guides, and the guides tell them to take them off and put the reg in before they hit the water and keep it in until they are standing on the boat.

Non-Japanese don't and they get into that situation listed above.

People who talk about diving get to have lots of opinions, because in the end talk is cheap, and being wrong does not cost anything. People who teach the occasional weekend course, and cert 20 divers a year, can be wrong as well, because statisitcs don't catch up to them that fast, luckily. People who actually dive for a living figure out what does not work, and get rid of it both off themselves and off their divers, because being wrong has consequences, and when one dives with thousands a year, statistics will catch you. There is a reason why most people who actually dive for a living hate snorkels: because they are ineffective and counter productive. It's not a cool factor, it's a functional choice.

Dive with customers for a living and one get to find out that most instructors don't teach anything more than breathing underwater, and stupid gear tricks. They do not teach buoyancy control, or ocean awareness, or how to quickly establish positive buoyancy at the surface by dumping weight belts, proper snorkel breathing, etc etc. All the stuff that actually can hurt a diver. Taking the snorkels off divers mask makes me not have to deal with the lack of training they got with snorkel breathing. I can and do take care of the rest, but I cannot breathe for the customers.

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The 'real' safety reasons you give are that the snorkel can somehow flood the mask leading to a breath-held ascent.
Please come to my house reef where in order to dive, one must cross a barrier reef which is exposed at low tide. If one wants to negotiate between the large porites corals without using tank air, one needs a snorkel. Snorkels have their place.

I think the main thing to take away from this thread is that snorkels are a legitimate tool for diving in certain situations. Are they a life-saver? Well... that can be argued, but if you're adrift at sea and your options are either to dump your tank and swim back, or wait and hope that someone finds you before nightfall... then in that specific scenario, yes a snorkel could well mean the difference between life and death.

Gotta love snorkel threads!

Actually I gave several safety issues only one of which was making the mask loose. Entanglement is a concern as well.

But, using it at the surface is the biggest lack of safety though. In any condition, using a reg is a better bet if swimming on the back if for some particular reason not available. There is no reason why in your back yard reef you cannot plan the dive to be done on scuba both ways. And on an outgoing tide when the waves are going over the reef, so the inside water is screaming through the cuts because of both the outgoing tide and the wave water return, you have to get back underwater anyway right?

There's places like that all over the Pacific (I have dove a bunch of them), and it's never sensible to build a dive plan around the ocean remaining calm enough to not need to crawl along the bottom on the way back, or just let a wave slam you over the reef, both of which require scuba. So the only time the snorkel might be used is on the way out when you are not actually exerting much effort anyway, right? How minutes of bottom time are you gaining by using scuba for those two minutes? Thirty seconds? I'll gladly give up those thirty seconds for not having the rip yanking at my snorkel on the way back, and I will triple that consideration for the customers I am diving with.

It's just not worth putting them through a hassle just to make some old farts who think we should still be doing ditch and dons, and diving off tables, and buddy breathing happy. There is a reason why despite snorkels being 'safety equpiment", they are not required on tech dives where the every single reason to "need" them with recreational gear is more than doubled, because of the heavier tanks, and the front mounted bottles, and the much higher likelihood of being well away from help.

The only reason why snorkels are not required in tech diving, is because tech divers are not bound by the old fart rules. Any 'reason' why the should be on rec gear goes at least double for tech setups. And yet they are not required.

 

[Edward3c]

Hi beanojones,

In my very limited diving experience I’ve encountered individuals whom insist that to dive one MUST have:

1. a twin set.
2. a long hose.
3. octopus on the right side
4. octopus on the left side
5. a spare mask
6. two DSMBs (Delayed Surface Marker Bouy)
7. a snorkel
8. a knife on the leg
9. a knife on the arm
10. a knife on the jacket/wing
11. a pony cylinder
12. I could go on …

All this insistence just shows lack of understanding. Each one of the items has its place and is relevant in its own circumstances. Its unfortunate those whom have adopted the DIR (Do It Right) mantra are under the impression their way is the only way.

What DIR means to me is to have the right kit for the type of diving I’m going to undertake. Be that a shallow look-see or a 45-50m dive.

If my buddy wants a different configuration, then providing it isn’t (what I consider) unsafe then we’ll dive.

BSAC have a dedicated snorkelling training programme with its own instructor regime. SCUBA instructors are not permitted to teach Snorkel qualifications without additional training/guidance.

Just my pennies worth based on my limited diving experience.

 

[Rogersea]

Beano,

I am sure that you look after your clients and keep them safe.

Like you, I have dived all over the world and in many places not listed in my profile, and I use my snorkel on many many occasions in rough and calm waters...

I dont care that you have choose not to use a snork or that you direct your customers to take them off. Just dont try to persuade new divers that they are useless appendages...

Cheers,

Roger

 

[DaleC]

Beano, As to all that discussion regarding statistics and seeing thousands of divers etc... the simple point remains that you appear to be basing your argument on experience with poorly trained divers in one boat based setting. It also sounds like the experience has made you a little jaded. My POV is different. I enjoy diving and the people I dive with and I try to expose myself to a wide variety of equipment and settings. Doing so has shown me that there are very few "absolutes" in diving and this is reflected in my opinions.

 

[Quero]

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[JamesK]

Its unfortunate those whom have adopted the DIR (Do It Right) mantra are under the impression their way is the only way.

What DIR means to me is to have the right kit for the type of diving I’m going to undertake.

How did DIR get involved in this?

 

[Edward3c]

How did DIR get involved in this?

Look at the avatar of those posting on this thread.

 

[Zieg]

I haven't use a snorkel while on scuba since I was a kid. Took it off the mask and never felt the need to put it back. I carry one in the gear bag for when I want to free dive. I always thought about one of those that fold up or roll up being damn handy. All my snorkels were found on the bottom and I haven't found one of the folding ones yet. A couple of times I really wished I had one on me. If you want to carry one, carry it. If not, don't. I know I don't care. I've read plenty of responses both ways and many of them make sense. (Kinda scary, something on this board making sense)

I do know that many mornings I used to watch the guys at the dive school on the other side of the bayou doing their morning swims with snorkels face down. Most had a hard time going a straight line. Now a days it seems that I see them without snorkels on their backs, again most not going in a straight line. Many bonk their heads into the boats moored in the bayou. Haven't figured out how to navigate looking backward. Personally I do feel that I can make better time on my back, that it is more efficient, and I breathe easier also. But I've noticed that the common factor is SWIMMING.

But snorkels in the "Real Ocean"? I'm stranded on the panhandle for now. Everyday I hear people refer to the Gulf as the Ocean. So I guess that is an example of a fake ocean. However sometimes it does get "choppy" and a snorkel on the surface is just plain nice.