Do not ever say you are a rescue diver

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

So this ISN'T from the Padi website? View attachment 755601
God, I feel like I am back teaching a remedial English class.

That statement says the maximum depth for recreational diving is 40 meters. You might not be aware of the meaning of the word "maximum." That means you should not go beyond that.

In the earlier quote from Black Crusader, he said the "recommended limit" was 40 meters. You might not be aware of the meaning of the word "limit." That means you should not go beyond that.

You seem to be saying that the statement means that PADI is recommending that new OW divers dive to 40 meters. You even said something about it being allowed on the fourth dive of the OW class.
  • Nothing in that statement recommends that dives go that deep. It simply says they should not go deeper.
  • Nothing in that statement speaks about limits for OW classes.
  • Nothing in that statement speaks about enforcement of those limits.
 
Here is another try:
  • PADI says the limit for recreational diving is 40 meters.
  • PADI is not a legislative body, so it does not make laws. Therefore, it is not against the law to go beyond that limit. It simply means you have gone beyond the limit for recreational diving.
  • If you go beyond the limit for recreational diving, it is like leaving Colorado and passing the border into Utah. When you do that, you are no longer in Colorado. You are in Utah. Similarly, when you pass the limit for recreational diving, you have crossed the border into technical diving.
  • "There are no scuba police" is a cute way of saying it is not against the law to pass the limit for recreational diving, just as it is not against the law to go from Colorado to Utah.
 
Aren’t the insurance companies the de-facto dive police? Dive beyond your qualifications at your peril.
Good point. And many say there is no depth limit. So, if a newly minted OW diver were to dive to 170’ and get bent, most dive insurance would cover the treatment. Now, they may later drop the diver, but they will cover the injury.

I guess the whole point of this was around the inclusion of the word “recommended.” I’m not sure what the appropriate term would be. Barring places where the law says different, any limit is simply a recommendation. So, in the case of PADI and several other agencies, the recommended depth limit for recreational divers is 130’/40M. That’s not to say that the agency recommends new OW divers to dive to 130’. Instead, it’s stating that they recommend recreational divers to not exceed 130’.

Now, if the recreational diver were to exceed 130’, and ascend safely, what would happen? PADI is not going to suspend or revoke their cert. No one is going to get a ticket from an agency, or be arrested by the certifying agency, therefore, the limit is just a recommendation.

As far as I know, the strongest stance (apart from Maldives, or other locations with laws limiting depth ) on 130’ comes from Apple, as the AW Ultra won’t display depth past 130’.
 
The only people who can make laws regarding scuba are local legal authorities.

Local dive operations can make enforceable policies, including limiting depths.

It must be tough for some people who charter a dive boat and hear the DM announce that decompression diving is not allowed. I imagine all the people who insist that all dives are decompression dives must be packing up their gear at that point, since that means no diving is allowed.
 
God, I feel like I am back teaching a remedial English class.
We're talking about the scuba police part! Again, get off your freaking high horse!
You posted it, give me a link and I could tell you.
Blackcrusader actually did, it's back a couple of pages. The web address is there.
 
We're talking about the scuba police part! Again, get off your freaking high horse!
I don't know what this means. Are you saying I should declare that you are right? If I do, which of us is on a high horse?
 
I don't have a problem either way. Terminology means something in a given context. Especially in the English language, many words have multiple meanings depending on context.
Some people can't stand this fact.
 
I don't know what this means. Are you saying I should declare that you are right? If I do, which of us is on a high horse?
I'm saying you're arguing about a total different point, I'm done with you.
 
I think some people here are misunderstanding the reasons for the decompression stops; they are to prevent nitrogen (for recreational diving) from coming out of solution and forming bubbles In the various tissues of the human body. The no-decompression limits mean that the diver, in a majority of situations (over 80%) can ascend to the surface without having those bubbles form. We in the 1970s started using the term, the “knife edge” of the no-decompression tables, to tell people that at that point, there was a higher probability of bubbles forming, as new research had shown that “micro bubbles” were forming when people came close to the no-decompression limits. They used a doppler instrument to actually listen to those micro bubbles go by. The micro bubbles were asymptomatic, but were there. So we cautioned against getting close to that “knife edge” of the no-decompression limits. Now the deeper you go, the more likely you were to get into a situation where you were close to the “knife edge” of the no-decompression limits.

If you want to get an idea sometime, get into a 50 meter pool, and start at the 10 meter area in the shallow end, dip under the water and swim to the other end as if you were descending on a dive. It will take you longer than you thing. I wrote earlier that at 130 feet (40 meters) you have 8 minutes of no-decompression diving. But that starts on the descent. So when you get to the other end, you probably have less than 5 minutes to tool around before you must ascend in order to stay within the 8 minute bottom time for no decompression. But is that really 8 minutes? I originally wrote “5 minutes,” as that was the next figure over and we always used that figure to stay away from that “knife edge” where 80+% of healthy, young male divers (Navy divers) won‘t get bent.

Now, I am still healthy, but not young by any means, so I won’t come close to the no-decompression limits on any of my diving. The “stops” of decompression diving are ways of stopping to off-gas excess nitrogen from the blood stream, in order not to produce those bubbles that accumulate in weird places to give the symptoms of “the bends,” or decompression sickness. When decompression stops are necessary, they form a barrier to the diver coming directly to the surface, and therefore fall into the “technical diving“ category in that special procedures and precautions are necessary to prevent that bubbling of nitrogen.

This has nothing at all to do with scuba police, or even the ”recommendations” of national training agencies (NAUI, PADI, etc.) or even the U.S. Navy. It has to do with an accumulation of studies, experiences, and deaths from decompression sickness over the last 100+ years. So pay attention, and stop this useless wrangling over terminology.

SeaRat

PS, one of the studies:

Cited by​

Undersea Biomed Res

. 1976 Jun;3(2):121-30.

Gas phase separation during decompression in man: ultrasound monitoring​

T S Neuman, D A Hall, P G Linaweaver Jr
  • PMID: 951822

Abstract​

During two dive series, one to 132 fsw and one to 210 fsw, Doppler ultrasonic bubble detectors were used to monitor venous gas bubbles in divers during decompression and for 30 min thereafter. Various decompression schedules were used. Bubble scores were evaluated by independent listerners to tape recordings in a blind manner. A significant increase in bubble scores throughout the stages of decompression and postdecompression was demonstrated as well as a statistically significant relationship between bubble score and decompression sickness. A reduction in mean bubble score was found in divers who made an additional deep decompression stop that was unrelated to the extension of the decompression time. The implications of these findings are discussed.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom