Do instructors not like to sell BP/W?

[DCBC]

New divers are routinely trained successfully in BP&W's.

1. If you're saying that the majority of new divers are being trained with BP/Ws, you obviously have no idea what's really going on in the dive industry.

2. Who do you think trains the majority of the divers? Answer: It's Instructors who teach through or for the LDS!

3. You state that: "Given that BP&W's aren't widely stocked, and few LDS know anything about them..."

Given that the LDS Instructors train more divers, how can the divers be "routinely trained successfully in BP&W's?"

Who's routinely teaching with BP/Ws??? From your personal experience, how many divers are trained yearly by the groups you are aware of? I'm happy to contact them and confirm this information.

I'm not saying that this doesn't happen, but it is by far the vast minority of OW divers trained. In my experience, I have no personal knowledge of any instructor teaching OW in BP/Ws other than groups who's mission is underwater exploration. I'm also not ruling out similar groups in the scientific diving population and some individual instructors, but again no where near a significant number.

You may prefer to paint a different picture, but the FACTS remain unchanged.

The facts are: that Aqualung/ U.S. Divers, Seaquest, Mares, Dacor, Cressi, Tusa, Scubapro and Zeagle are the big names in the diver flotation business. The majority of BCs sold worldwide are NOT BP/Ws. Obviously Deep Sea Supply (your pocket-book) would like for things to be different, but no matter how much YOU would like to paint a different picture. the FACTS remain unchanged.

I maintain that "A new diver is better able (safer) to use equipment that is similar to the equipment that s/he has trained on. The diver needs to first gain a degree of experience until a transition may be made that will maximize safety."

I would agree that should a BP/W be used in training, the diver should be encouraged to use this equipment after s/he's certified. As the majority are trained with Jacket BCs....

Perhaps you would like to address this point...

 

[fisheater]

Tobin didn't say that the majority or even a significant minority of OW students were taught in BP/W's. He said that OW students were routinely taught in BP/W's. I take that to mean that some instructors are teaching in BP/W's on a routine basis and that the classes are successful and not leading to student deaths due to their use of BP/Ws.

No one (in their right mind) is saying that most divers, let alone students, are using BP/W's.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin didn't say that the majority or even a significant minority of OW students were taught in BP/W's. He said that OW students were routinely taught in BP/W's. I take that to mean that some instructors are teaching in BP/W's on a routine basis and that the classes are successful and not leading to student deaths due to their use of BP/Ws.

No one (in their right mind) is saying that most divers, let alone students, are using BP/W's.

Apparently somebody here can actually read.

Thank you.

Tobin

 

[Dive Alaska]

My girlfriend and I just completed our OW certification and were considering our options on BC equipment. We both thought the BCD's we used during the course were too much equipment and looking for something simpler. I have a buddy who let us try on a BP/W that I liked very much and have come to the conclusion that I want to dive in that. My girlfriend wants the Transpac or the QPac by OMS. Either way both our choices seem unconventional when we tell our LDS what we want in equipment.

So i was wondering why both the Scuba Shops in my town don't want to sell us this equipment or want us to take a tech diving class to use this equipment. And if I buy elsewhere will I have trouble using a BP/W or any Winged BC like the transpac on dive trips with these particular instructors?

I just don't understand why these instructors want us in a jacket style BCD so bad.

I just wanted to congratulate you for thinking on your own, and coming to the logical conclusion that the "mainstream" equipment which is marketed to the masses might not be the right choice for you. Personally, I teach all of my open water classes in a BP/wing and I find that my students learn faster and are more successfull with them. Good Job!

 

[cool_hardware52]

1. If you're saying that the majority of new divers are being trained with BP/Ws, you obviously have no idea what's really going on in the dive industry.

2. Who do you think trains the majority of the divers? Answer: It's Instructors who teach through or for the LDS!

3. You state that: "Given that BP&W's aren't widely stocked, and few LDS know anything about them..."

Given that the LDS Instructors train more divers, how can the divers be "routinely trained successfully in BP&W's?"

Pretty simple. "Routine" does not equal "Majority"

For example: Ferrari's are routinely driven in Los Angeles. That does not mean the majority of motorists in Los Angeles drive Ferrari's.


I do think I've have discovered the nexus of our disagreement.

As I've mentioned, I own a BP/W (SS backplate, double bladder (85pds lift) with full redundancy and a Hogarthian harness).

This represents needless complexity and an over sized wing. If this is your idea of the "best" and "safest" configuration.......

I do not utilize a BP/W for my OW courses.

Your students should thank you for not exposing them to or recommending BP&W's

Tobin

 

[Teamcasa]

Just trying to wrap this up.

Gear:
BP/W are not dangerous nor evil.
Conventional jacket BC's are not dangerous nor evil.
A BP/W system in not exclusively designed for technical divers but traditional jacket BC are exclusively designed for recreational diving.
Most technical diving requires a BP/W configuration.

People:
A new diver can be trained from the get-go with either system safely.
A diver that has been trained in one system can safely transition to another with a little effort and training.
Once a diver uses a BP/W, they will tend to recommend it to everyone.
The vast majority of recreational divers still use a jacket BC safely.
Some instructors consider BP/W to be exclusively for technical diving and not suited for new divers.
Some instructors will train the diver in what ever gear the client wants.

Money:
If there was more profit in the BP/W systems, more shops would sell them.
Tobin is passionate about his products (as he should be).
A shop/LDS will sell more of what they are passionate about.

Everyone has opinions and are entitled to share them; just be ready to defend them. Facts defend themselves.

 

[fisheater]

Dave:

Brilliant, simply brilliant!!


Posted via Mobile Device

 

[DCBC]

No one (in their right mind) is saying that most divers, let alone students, are using BP/W's.

Brilliant indeed; there are in-fact very few students being taught using BP/W's.

 

[leapfrog]

Some instructors consider BP/W to be exclusively for technical diving ...

No, not exclusively for technical diving

...and not suited for new divers.

Primarily for safety reasons because a BP/W does not float a diver in a heads up position (or face up position if counterweighted) on the surface as a jacket BCD does

Some instructors will train the diver in what ever gear the client wants.

Absolutely. Training for diver and buddy.

Everyone has opinions and are entitled to share them; just be ready to defend them. Facts defend themselves.

"He that never changes his opinions, never corrects his mistakes, and will never be wiser on the morrow than he is today". -Tryon Edwards

 

[DCBC]

This represents needless complexity and an over sized wing. If this is your idea of the "best" and "safest" configuration.......

I use the right tool for the job; obviously you don't do much deep diving with extra equipment on Heliox ... Please don't talk to me about complexity; you are not honestly aware of, nor understand my personal equipment requirements.