Good point, Sue.
Diving with women
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Would you really prefer that some men treat you the same underwater as topside? Of course those aren't the ones you'd dive with.
Yes, we are all one species but as a biologist there are gender-linked differences of relevance to diving. Lower air consumption (in general) is one of them. Less tendency to race through potential interesting habitat is another. A generally better sense of the buddy and ecological relationships (IMHO).
On the downside, greater sensitivity to cold and less ability to tolerate extended cold water diving (unless dry).
In my opinion the positives outweigh the negatives. As I've stated elsewhere, most of my regular buddies are female and I'm not involved romantically with any of them. I dive with them because they're fun people and their diving is more compatible with mine as a videographer.
Dr. Bill
Yes, we are all one species but as a biologist there are gender-linked differences of relevance to diving. Lower air consumption (in general) is one of them. Less tendency to race through potential interesting habitat is another. A generally better sense of the buddy and ecological relationships (IMHO).
On the downside, greater sensitivity to cold and less ability to tolerate extended cold water diving (unless dry).
In my opinion the positives outweigh the negatives. As I've stated elsewhere, most of my regular buddies are female and I'm not involved romantically with any of them. I dive with them because they're fun people and their diving is more compatible with mine as a videographer.
Dr. Bill
washow88
Guest
For a minute I thought I was reading a thread from the third world.
I dive with both a male and a female, and I do treat them both equally; I do not care what sex they are.
I dive with both a male and a female, and I do treat them both equally; I do not care what sex they are.
Well I sure as hell care, I'll take a female anyday!!!!! This post was started in earnest folks, no offence to women, but there does seem to be valid differences in dive partners, I have personally never had a woman dive partner yet, but I have a lot of experience spearfishing and I can tell you, any blood in the water WILL attract the wrong side of dinner guests, so I was looking for honest scientific responses, sorry if some of you gals felt I waswalking on your toes, butt some of you guys' posts-geeze, talk about brown-nosers! zeN}} 
Natasha
Contributor
Hi Zen:
Wrong. Dead blood from a woman menstrating will not attract sharks. They want the nice clean fresh stuff. So no worries there.
If your woman dive buddy is having her period, and it's causing her need to abort the dive, I'm sure she will let you know.
Otherwise, as said already, we women are the same above water, as under, and should be treated the same. Hopefully to you that will mean, with the utmost respect.
Have fun..and remember 'a heart is judged not by how much you love others, but by how much others love you.'
Wrong. Dead blood from a woman menstrating will not attract sharks. They want the nice clean fresh stuff. So no worries there.
If your woman dive buddy is having her period, and it's causing her need to abort the dive, I'm sure she will let you know.
Otherwise, as said already, we women are the same above water, as under, and should be treated the same. Hopefully to you that will mean, with the utmost respect.
Have fun..and remember 'a heart is judged not by how much you love others, but by how much others love you.'
SueMermaid once bubbled...
Why do I get this icky feeling when I read this thread? It's like you are talking about diving with a different species. Were you all raised by wolves?
Just treat us underwater the same as above water. Simple enough?
We're not gonna attract sharks, or break a nail, or start crying, or try to get you to talk about where our relationship is going. We're there for the same reason you are.
OK, but I notice you didn't say anything about emotions, you'll share stuff about emotions won't you?
Sue you sound like a great person. I'll bet you never have a problem lining up a dive buddy.
Oh and if I were half the diver my wife is I'd be twice as good as I am. I'm just funnin with ya.
victoriawtx
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cord can sometimes get in the way when we need to work on our hair underwater. Not to mention the electrocution hazard....ROFL
Bio 101 can help with the anatomy issues, if you are truly concerned. LOL
Try diving with a woman, we just might surprise you!
good luck!
Bio 101 can help with the anatomy issues, if you are truly concerned. LOL
Try diving with a woman, we just might surprise you!
good luck!
it appears the diving literature supports that, however it doesn't appear the matter has really been studied enough to say for sure. This is a discusion board, and I was asking some legitimate questions about women and diving, after all the topic of women and the effect of diving is a hot area of research in dive medicine. Respect for women divers has never been an issue here. zeN||
victoriawtx once bubbled...
cord can sometimes get in the way when we need to work on our hair underwater. Not to mention the electrocution hazard....ROFL
Bio 101 can help with the anatomy issues, if you are truly concerned. LOL
Try diving with a woman, we just might surprise you!
good luck!
I doubt most of those stereotypes are true. All of my dive buddies have been men, but that is just because I am single and know of no female divers in the area that don't dive with their significant other.
I have heard the tales of the wives who see a thermocline as an iron curtain telling them them to go no lower. My normal dive buddy for deep diving in doubles is the husband of one of those wives.
Yet, I run into women at Gilboa all the time that would see my brand of diving as tame. Many of the women there are cave divers, which is something that I do not yet aspire to be. That takes more than I have in my abilities right now.
Most of what I hear is that the women are by nature better divers than the men. I believe it! I agree one hundred percent with Dr. Bill. So, no lady needs to prove it to me! Women are not a different species. They are a little different by nuture and nature most of the time though. Those differences are quickly discovered and used for a better dive.
The above is just my personal opinion, but if anyone else wishes to jump in, I am sure that they would be welcome.
Natasha, Doc Viking in this forum said it better than I, and I quote:
"Extensive science has demonstrated that the smell & taste receptors of many carnivorous sharks routinely permit the recognition of one part of blood in 100 million parts of water. With some species under some conditions, e.g., food deprivation, this sensitivity can be very much higher. Those expert in the central nervous system of the shark have suggested that two-thirds or more of its brain may be devoted to smell. And, while the research does show that sharks seem to be more attracted to fish than human blood, they most certainly do respond to the latter.
The solid research findings on fresh human, animal & fish blood, other human bodily fluids, including "dead" ones like urine, and a wide variety of water-borne organic chemicals found in such fluids, e.g., amino acids, amines & small fatty acids, indicate to me that the carnivorous shark's exquisite sensory capabilities can in fact detect menstrual blood, and at a considerable distance.
Although the blood lost during menstruation typically is small & occurs over several days, there simply is no argument but that, most especially on the days of heaviest discharge, it is more than enough to be detected by a creature that not only can sense one part of blood in 100 million parts of water or better, but also often can tell which of its nostrils that part is closest to.
The claims you see about menstrual blood repelling sharks are not substantiated by any studies that I have been able locate. Those making such claims to whom I have written have not provided any.
Dr. Richard Martin has asserted that "Menstrual fluid does include 'old' (hemolysed) blood, but it has been shown experimentally that sharks are simply not interested in it," but does not give any supporting references.
A brief and uncompelling piece on the topic by Dr. Jacalyn McComb includes the sentence, "The hemolytic blood associated with menses may instead act as a shark deterrent (Edmonds, et al., 1992, p. 65). " One will want to be aware that Dr. Edmonds & collegues arrived at this conjecture based solely on the statistical finding that women are attacked by sharks less often than men. Clearly there a many possible reasons for this statistic having nothing to do with menstruation, and it most assuredly does not meaningfully support Dr. McComb's contention.
So much for detection/attaction. As to any increased risk of shark attack during menses, to the best of my knowledge there is no research on this.
There as well are several credible sources who opine that risk may be increased. These include George Burgess, Director of the International Shark Attack File, and Divers Alert Network (DAN). An article on shark attack in the Feb '02 issue of their "Alert Diver" magazine states: "Although there is no positive evidence that menstruation will increase risk, it is best not to tempt a predator that finds its prey via smell" (p.15). As with Dr. Martin's and Dr. McComb's comments, this other position also is without direct research support.
In earlier threads on the subject within this forum, you will find anecdotal reports of menstruating divers being hassled by sharks, and I can provide many others if you like. Of course, such reports are a very weak form of argument as far as science is concerned.
As you can see, as with much in scuba, research and the "experts" really haven't settled the issue as yet.
My personal opinion is that there probably is a very, very small increased risk of shark attack related to menses. But, as the risk of shark attack on a diver is already so infinitesimally small, and even smaller on women divers, it would be extraordinarily difficult to prove the matter one way or the other even if controlled studies were easily done.
This having been said, if I were a woman & was otherwise feeling up to safe scuba I would not alter my dive plans due to menstruation.
Of course for you hardy ladies diving cold water in drysuits, the whole discussion lacks relevance.
Best regards."
DocVikingo
"Extensive science has demonstrated that the smell & taste receptors of many carnivorous sharks routinely permit the recognition of one part of blood in 100 million parts of water. With some species under some conditions, e.g., food deprivation, this sensitivity can be very much higher. Those expert in the central nervous system of the shark have suggested that two-thirds or more of its brain may be devoted to smell. And, while the research does show that sharks seem to be more attracted to fish than human blood, they most certainly do respond to the latter.
The solid research findings on fresh human, animal & fish blood, other human bodily fluids, including "dead" ones like urine, and a wide variety of water-borne organic chemicals found in such fluids, e.g., amino acids, amines & small fatty acids, indicate to me that the carnivorous shark's exquisite sensory capabilities can in fact detect menstrual blood, and at a considerable distance.
Although the blood lost during menstruation typically is small & occurs over several days, there simply is no argument but that, most especially on the days of heaviest discharge, it is more than enough to be detected by a creature that not only can sense one part of blood in 100 million parts of water or better, but also often can tell which of its nostrils that part is closest to.
The claims you see about menstrual blood repelling sharks are not substantiated by any studies that I have been able locate. Those making such claims to whom I have written have not provided any.
Dr. Richard Martin has asserted that "Menstrual fluid does include 'old' (hemolysed) blood, but it has been shown experimentally that sharks are simply not interested in it," but does not give any supporting references.
A brief and uncompelling piece on the topic by Dr. Jacalyn McComb includes the sentence, "The hemolytic blood associated with menses may instead act as a shark deterrent (Edmonds, et al., 1992, p. 65). " One will want to be aware that Dr. Edmonds & collegues arrived at this conjecture based solely on the statistical finding that women are attacked by sharks less often than men. Clearly there a many possible reasons for this statistic having nothing to do with menstruation, and it most assuredly does not meaningfully support Dr. McComb's contention.
So much for detection/attaction. As to any increased risk of shark attack during menses, to the best of my knowledge there is no research on this.
There as well are several credible sources who opine that risk may be increased. These include George Burgess, Director of the International Shark Attack File, and Divers Alert Network (DAN). An article on shark attack in the Feb '02 issue of their "Alert Diver" magazine states: "Although there is no positive evidence that menstruation will increase risk, it is best not to tempt a predator that finds its prey via smell" (p.15). As with Dr. Martin's and Dr. McComb's comments, this other position also is without direct research support.
In earlier threads on the subject within this forum, you will find anecdotal reports of menstruating divers being hassled by sharks, and I can provide many others if you like. Of course, such reports are a very weak form of argument as far as science is concerned.
As you can see, as with much in scuba, research and the "experts" really haven't settled the issue as yet.
My personal opinion is that there probably is a very, very small increased risk of shark attack related to menses. But, as the risk of shark attack on a diver is already so infinitesimally small, and even smaller on women divers, it would be extraordinarily difficult to prove the matter one way or the other even if controlled studies were easily done.
This having been said, if I were a woman & was otherwise feeling up to safe scuba I would not alter my dive plans due to menstruation.
Of course for you hardy ladies diving cold water in drysuits, the whole discussion lacks relevance.
Best regards."
DocVikingo
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