Diving with just a watch

[427Dave]

I guess I am old fashion, I still dive with both computer and tables/watch. Started with my old SOS mechanical computer years ago because they were not always right. If my computer fails, I am covered.

 

[jviehe]

And what we are saying is that your not monitoring YOUR tissue loading, the computer is modeling a hypothetical diver--not you. You can monitor hypothetical tissue loading with tables and a watch, with a V-Planner and a bottom timer or with a computer. N

And I am saying we are saying the same thing. Whether its hypothetical or not is irrelavent. In practice you are monitoring your tissue loading to make sure you dont die. WHich makes such tools life support.

And regardless, this has nothing to do with the point, which is that computer have negligble failure rates.

 

[Eris Lucan7*]

I used a Computer but the Vibrations as his IKIK sound on absulut unintresting

deco spots or by correct climb up time had maken me ill!

E.L.7*

 

[halocline]

And I am saying we are saying the same thing. Whether its hypothetical or not is irrelavent. In practice you are monitoring your tissue loading to make sure you dont die. WHich makes such tools life support.

And regardless, this has nothing to do with the point, which is that computer have negligble failure rates.

One of the problems associated with relying on computers for NDL info is that many of them will tell you entirely different numbers for the same dive. Let's say you go on a dive with a suunto and an oceanic on your wrist. At some point during the dive the suunto might say you have 1 minute of NDL while the oceanic says 1hr. Which is correct?

I agree that the tissure loading graphs can be helpful at the end of a dive and those tend to be more in agreement among various computer brands than NDL calculations. This is, I believe, primarily due to the differences in the way the various algorithms give off-gassing credit for ascending. The Haldanean computers give WAY more NDL credit for ascending than the RGBM computers. Yet the N2 loading bars act are pretty close.

One easy way to theoretically increase your likelihood of avoiding DCS is to extend your safety stop several minutes. Understanding that when computers slip into mandatory deco from NDL diving, the first required stop will usually be at 10ft; first meaning first to appear after NDL has expired. So, by extending your safety stop, you are doing more or less what the computer would tell you to do if you cross the line into deco. Another easy thing to do is to plan your profiles so that you have lots of off-gassing towards the end of a dive.

The computer is a nice tool for rec diving; it helps you watch your ascents, it does a good job of keeping track of surface intervals, and the dive log feature can be a useful training aide. But to say it's "life support" in the sense that you would die without it is silly.

 

[Nemrod]

And I am saying we are saying the same thing. Whether its hypothetical or not is irrelavent. In practice you are monitoring your tissue loading to make sure you dont die. WHich makes such tools life support.

And regardless, this has nothing to do with the point, which is that computer have negligble failure rates.

The manuals do not recommend deco use because the computers are not considered life support but simply a monitor to help prevent exceeding NDL. Since I have seen multiple computers give multiple and incongruent data for the same dive that is why tables are always your real fall back. Not having tables, not timing your dive and not tracking your depth independent of the "toy" computers is using the computer as life support--agreed--and it is a MISUSE of that computer per the manufactuers intent for that device.

N

 

[jeckyll]

...WHich makes such tools life support.

And regardless, this has nothing to do with the point, which is that computer have negligble failure rates.

No.

The point was that computers are not life support equipment. If you treat them as such, you're heading down a dangerous road.

You keep trying to make it about failure rates. It isn't.

What it is about is using your brain and not deferring to a piece of equipment. A simple tool. A dumb tool at that (given that it "knows" no personal information about you, the diver).

That's it.

 

[gcbryan]

The manuals do not recommend deco use because the computers are not considered life support but simply a monitor to help prevent exceeding NDL. Since I have seen multiple computers give multiple and incongruent data for the same dive that is why tables are always your real fall back. Not having tables, not timing your dive and not tracking your depth independent of the "toy" computers is using the computer as life support--agreed--and it is a MISUSE of that computer per the manufactuers intent for that device.

N

There is no magic to the use of tables or computers. As some have pointed out you still have to use your brain/judgement. Not using a rec computer for deco is more related to manufacturer liability than anything else. It's fine to get you out of limited deco but that's not the point. Sure different computers give different numbers but so does deco planning software depending on how you set the preferences.

The point is it's a false sense of security if you are unthinkingly replying on a computer or tables and if you are using your brain it's not a problem using either tables or computers.

 

[Nemrod]

There is no magic to the use of tables or computers. As some have pointed out you still have to use your brain/judgement. Not using a rec computer for deco is more related to manufacturer liability than anything else. It's fine to get you out of limited deco but that's not the point. Sure different computers give different numbers but so does deco planning software depending on how you set the preferences.

The point is it's a false sense of security if you are unthinkingly replying on a computer or tables and if you are using your brain it's not a problem using either tables or computers.

I agree with your statements, never intended othewise, Tables and a timer (watch, bottom timer etc) must be used with training and knowledge and common sense--yes---of course. BTW, I have a computer that I use sometimes but I still carry a watch and a depth guage and the tables are in my brain. N

 

[jviehe]

I think the OP has been answered, therefore further debate on this common topic is pointless.

 

[Zieg]

I think the OP has been answered, therefore further debate on this common topic is pointless.

No, the OP asked that the discussion continue. However, it does seem to now be an endless debate as to whether or not a computer is life support. So I thought I would chime in. I don't feel that a computer is life support. In my mine it is just a fancy way of using the tables. The use of a computer will not affect whether I dive or not. I use a computer and I use a watch. I've used several computers over the years, and I have seen them all fail for one reason or another, be it operator error or failed battery. When that happens, I'm on the tables. I don't abort the dive, I finish it on tables.