Diving with just a watch

[tridacna]

I think the OP has been answered, therefore further debate on this common topic is pointless.

In 10-20 years, this paradigm too shall pass. The old divers will make way for the new and the discussion will be whether people still use computers now that "xxx" (anyone fill in the blank) is available to internally monitor their tissue loading. Computers will be passe. Watches will go the same way as horsecollars/bcds/you name it.

This discussion is typical in science. It's the end of the old paradigm. Older users cling to what they are comfortable with. You're not going to shake them. New users move on.

(Some of us have moved on already).

 

[Thalassamania]

A computer is no different than a table,

Correct, it's just an amimated set of tables.

except more accurate and thus safer.

WRONG! Since when using tables you have to stay inside of a square profile, your actual tissue loading is likely to be less when using tables.

In practice you are monitoring your tissue loading to make sure you dont die. WHich makes such tools life support.

WRONG! At best you are monitoring a simulation of your possible tissue loading that you hope is outside of your actual loading.

And regardless, this has nothing to do with the point, which is that computer have negligble failure rates.

I assume you have studies to prove that?

Computers as life support? Hardly. Computers may be useful, convenient, easier. etc., but "life support?" I think not. I can live just fine without one, I did so for more than half my diving career and I often dive without one today, especially on dives were my life actually depends on my decompression status. Computers are fine for puttering around on a multilevel reef tour but not on a "big" dive.

 

[Ana]

In 10-20 years, this paradigm too shall pass. The old divers will make way for the new and the discussion will be whether people still use computers now that "xxx" (anyone fill in the blank) is available to internally monitor their tissue loading. Computers will be passe. Watches will go the same way as horsecollars/bcds/you name it.

This discussion is typical in science. It's the end of the old paradigm. Older users cling to what they are comfortable with. You're not going to shake them. New users move on.

(Some of us have moved on already).

I don't think the issue here is about adapting to new gear. What is being discussed here is more on the lines of semantics, and why not? Just call things what they are.

A watch just like a computer are no life support equipment. They just aren't. If the thing stops you can go on living.
The vessel containing the air you'll breath and the device delivering such air, ARE life support equipment; if either one of them fails you have to either:
1-find a replacement for that air (from a buddy or the surface) or
2-stop living

For some people the computer is just as necessary as the fins. But neither one's malfunction will directly cause death.

I carry an analog watch 24/7, but many times I look at my cell phone for the time, no reasson why, I just do.
I just got a new dive toy that includes an AI feature, I'll soon use it as the main source of gas information but I don't know how long I'll keep the analog gauge, then again, neither one are life support equipment, they are useful tools that make my diving very enjoyable.

Because of all the years diving I've accumulated lots of dive gear, so redundancy is not an issue for me, but if I was starting from zero, I would not buy a low end computer just to have one, I would go with a watch and tables until the day I can afford a good computer. No only that, even if I wasn't into Nitrox yet I would wait to buy a computer that can handle Nitrox just in case I decide to get into it later on.

 

[Nismo]

Either option you were to go with is a neccessity. Life support equipment may not be accurate but a watch and tables or a computer would be a required piece of equipment. It may not monitor your real time tissue loading, but giving you a simulation is giving critical information in keeping you safe. The tables do the same however. It's data provided is purely time. You look at the table to see how much time you have at depth. The computer does the same. However it just makes adjustments for doing multidepth diving. I have done more computer dives now since I went on a recent trip to Bonaire. For that, it was very nice to have since it was all multilevel diving. However I always take my tables and wear a watch. On my first dive below 100, my watch flooded. So to say not to use a computer because it will fail is a poor reason. Now I like being able to use my tables. I have no problem if I had to switch back to them. I think it's a good thing to know. Having a good quality dive watch as a back up is probably a good idea since as mentioned before, you can have a different computer that will calculate differently. Obviously the watch and tables is the old standard. You can dive regularly with just that. You can do that much cheaper as well if on a tight budget. I think it's just something one should know how to do just in case they have to. However if you only dive watch and tables, you should also carry a second watch in case it's battery dies or it floods. Could get an automatic watch or 2 but then you get into the whole cost debate. I prefer to use my computer, but would not hesitate if I had to use the tables because something happened. Of course if my computer died, my dive day would probably be done since I would not have a back up device. I wonder how many watch only dives carry a back up watch?

 

[Nemrod]

In 10-20 years, this paradigm too shall pass. The old divers will make way for the new and the discussion will be whether people still use computers now that "xxx" (anyone fill in the blank) is available to internally monitor their tissue loading. Computers will be passe. Watches will go the same way as horsecollars/bcds/you name it.

This discussion is typical in science. It's the end of the old paradigm. Older users cling to what they are comfortable with. You're not going to shake them. New users move on.

(Some of us have moved on already).

I cannot believe all of the misinformation and legend. Old divers don't use watches while young divers use computers--where does that come from?:no I see very young tech divers on V planner and bottom timer with NO computer. Why is that? I am not anti computer (and I am not old) but just think a diver should understand exactly what that computer is really doing and more importantly what it is not doing.

BTW, watches will always be worn, don't tell me any different

There is a clear seperation between recreational casual divers and more serious or technical divers. One tends to use computers and air integrated wireless gadgets and the other tends to use analog spg and timers (watch, dedicated bottom timers etc) and I think that relates to experience and the recognition at some point as that experience is gained how a V planner/tables/timer can really be a more robust method.

N

 

[jviehe]

I cannot believe all of the misinformation and legend. Old divers don't use watches while young divers use computers--where does that come from?:no I see very young tech divers on V planner and bottom timer with NO computer. Why is that? I am not anti computer (and I am not old) but just think a diver should understand exactly what that computer is really doing and more importantly what it is not doing.

BTW, watches will always be worn, don't tell me any different

There is a clear seperation between recreational casual divers and more serious or technical divers. One tends to use computers and air integrated wireless gadgets and the other tends to use analog spg and timers (watch, dedicated bottom timers etc) and I think that relates to experience and the recognition at some point as that experience is gained how a V planner/tables/timer can really be a more robust method.

N

Recreational vs technical is a very different issue, and that technical requires and extra method of safety is common sense. Not to mention technical computers are a lot more expensive, especially when you need backups. That said, one day even technical divers will mainly use computers over tables, IMO. Every year there are simply less reasons not to. The human brain is inefficient at multitasking and math compared to a computer. It is best left focusing on using technology to adapt to reality.

 

[tridacna]

What is being discussed here is more on the lines of semantics,

"Semantics" ? What do you mean? You carry a watch and a computer for semantic reasons? Do you know what "semantic" means? Yeah, go ahead and Google it.

My argument is simply that people will cling to old technology and resist new stuff until a new generation of users changes their behavior and beliefs. Scuba equipment usage is a silly example of this, (but valid nonetheless). While you're looking up "semantic", also look up Thomas Kuhn.

p.s. My "reliable" watch failed on a dive this year. So much for life support. I'm glad I had my computer with me. It even had the time displayed.

 

[tridacna]

I cannot believe all of the misinformation and legend. Old divers don't use watches while young divers use computers--where does that come from?
N

Politely disagree but...yeah they do. People tend to stay with what they are more comfortable with. What they were trained with. There is an entirely new generation of divers driven to computers by their eager LDS's with absolutely no real understanding of tables. I see them come through the shop ALL the time. I rarely see divers with watches. (OK maybe you do...). Me and you might not want it, but HUDs will become more and more prevalent. As will cheaper and better computers. Heck, we can argue this for hours and no-one will be "correct". Technology will trump all. I defy you to describe diving SCUBA equipment in 10 years. Watches? How quaint!

 

[Zieg]

"Semantics" ? What do you mean? You carry a watch and a computer for semantic reasons? Do you know what "semantic" means? Yeah, go ahead and Google it.

My argument is simply that people will cling to old technology and resist new stuff until a new generation of users changes their behavior and beliefs. Scuba equipment usage is a silly example of this, (but valid nonetheless). While you're looking up "semantic", also look up Thomas Kuhn.

p.s. My "reliable" watch failed on a dive this year. So much for life support. I'm glad I had my computer with me. It even had the time displayed.

Well, let me tell you that argument/logic is full of nasty oily smelly gas you get when the filters on the compressor fail.

Politely disagree but...yeah they do. People tend to stay with what they are more comfortable with. What they were trained with. There is an entirely new generation of divers driven to computers by their eager LDS's with absolutely no real understanding of tables. I see them come through the shop ALL the time. I rarely see divers with watches. (OK maybe you do...). Me and you might not want it, but HUDs will become more and more prevalent. As will cheaper and better computers. Heck, we can argue this for hours and no-one will be "correct". Technology will trump all. I defy you to describe diving SCUBA equipment in 10 years. Watches? How quaint!

Your observations of the new generation of divers may be accurate, but your opinions of divers clinging to just what they were trained with is way off the mark. Using myself for an example, I was the first on my area to buy a BC back when they first came out, I still have my first EDGE computer (still works, packed away nice and neat in the garage), and believe it or not, right now I am deeply in love with my new Datamask. No young whipper-snapper of a kid made me convert.

Am I the exception to the norm? No. All of the divers I know of our experience keep up with technology and are constantly updating and upgrading our equipment and attitude. You may not think so but is the way it IS. Some of us still have the old gear because it still works. As for your "reliable" watch, perhaps you should have bought a good watch, and not one prone to failure.

 

[halocline]

Actually, I think the majority of recreational, NDL, single tank divers either use computers or would prefer to if given a choice. (like choosing a rental reg with or without a computer) I'm one of them; but I don't for a second fall into the trap that my computer is "life support". For me and countless others, the computer is a convenience and probably adds some measure of safety. Maybe that's where the argument over semantics is; I'm fully aware that should my computer stop working, I can easily and safely end the dive or continue the dive depending on the situation.

The main issues here are: 1)OW, no deco diving, which means you simply do not put yourself in a position of required deco stops. If you don't adhere to this, you're in a whole situation. So, the safety stop is truly for added safety as intended, and can be easily extended, which is exactly what a computer would prescribe at the onset of required deco. Personally I just do a longer stop on any deep dive; why not? 2) Buddy system, which means that you ALWAYS have access to your buddy's dive data. There is nothing wrong with using this data (time/depth/ascent) to safely and easily end the dive. 3) Profile planning, which means you should know before even getting in the water that your dive will not put you in deco situations, how deep you're going for how long, etc. If you choose safe profiles and dive them, the computer should be mostly confirming your adherence to the profile.

Many of the comments seem to be forgetting that these are basic safety "rules" of recreational diving. If you want to discuss solo diving or deco diving, fine. In those situations computer failure is much more serious, which is probably one of the main reasons so many tech divers use tables or planning software.