Diving with just a watch
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bvmjethead
Contributor
Politely disagree but...yeah they do. People tend to stay with what they are more comfortable with. What they were trained with. There is an entirely new generation of divers driven to computers by their eager LDS's with absolutely no real understanding of tables. I see them come through the shop ALL the time. I rarely see divers with watches. (OK maybe you do...). Me and you might not want it, but HUDs will become more and more prevalent. As will cheaper and better computers. Heck, we can argue this for hours and no-one will be "correct". Technology will trump all. I defy you to describe diving SCUBA equipment in 10 years. Watches? How quaint!
Politely disagree.
My LDS trained me how to use tables, a SPG, a watch and a depth gauge to dive and plan dives. In fact my instructor (I get the feeling) almost did not allow me to use my computer in the pool sessions fearing it could be a distraction.
I'm recently trained. Bought a Cobra computer as my first piece of dive equipment ever. I had that Cobra before I had even signed up for classes.
Now that I'm certified, I'm looking for a dive watch, SPG and depth gauge console and studying planning using the tables AS PRIMARY with my Cobra as a backup.
Soon after getting a good dive watch and an analog console and getting more experience underwater I MAY purchase a backup computer, then again I MAY not.
My LDS and my instructor were always HAMMERING away at the importance of understanding how to dive the tables. Planning your dives and diving your plan.
I feel I'm a very competent BEGINNING diver, because of my modern training. I have alot to learn, but I'm off to a great start.
Regrettably not all LDS are the same and your post may be correct depending upon who you go to for training.
Zieg
Contributor
Yes, I kinda like my responce. I think it goes back to some other threads about using creative language instead of using more profanatory language. If you've ever taken a breath off a bad tank you'll know exactly what I mean. Granted I was in a bit of a pissy mood when I posted that, I still think that your logic wrong.
I guess that I also took offense to calling a watch quaint. I'm one of those who finds having someone ask me about the time to be annoying.
Sorry I have to go, we can continue w/ disscussion after lunch.
Ana
.
Ok I try to say things slower:
The semantics argument I refered to was the one about a computer (or a watch for that matter) being a "life support" element. I don't recall if it was you or someone else who called a computer life support equipment.
The OP wondered if anyone dives with just a watch these days. There were severals replies and then someone (again i forget who, and don't care to search back) said that a computer is life support equipment, from there others argued that call... and then others complaint that there is no reason to argue, and then I chimed in saying the argument was about semantics, being the difference between life support and NO life support.... are you following?
do I still have to google anything? thanks
Zieg
Contributor
tridacna, to get back to what I was saying. I believe you are wrong when you say that people will stay with what they are trained with. Diving is an equipment intensive undertaking. One of the reasons some of us got into diving was all the neat stuff. If you don't believe me just take a look in my house and garage.
Some of us have been around long enough to see equipment styles come and go, to see how some of the gear has developed, to see how some of the gear used today is just a rehash of older styles. The wings you use on your backplate are nothing new, that is a style that came, went, and has come back again. As for new technology, I try it all. I may reject it, but I'll at least try it. I guess you can say we know the difference between good, solid dive gear, and something gimicy. The difference between caca (happy Dandy?) and shinola (it's still not the same).
As for the new generation of divers driven to computers by their eager LDS's with absolutely no real understanding of tables, that is just wrong. Without a foundation of knowledge how can you understand the process. I don't want to get into another discussion about how lacking dive training is today.
Some of us have been around long enough to see equipment styles come and go, to see how some of the gear has developed, to see how some of the gear used today is just a rehash of older styles. The wings you use on your backplate are nothing new, that is a style that came, went, and has come back again. As for new technology, I try it all. I may reject it, but I'll at least try it. I guess you can say we know the difference between good, solid dive gear, and something gimicy. The difference between caca (happy Dandy?) and shinola (it's still not the same).
As for the new generation of divers driven to computers by their eager LDS's with absolutely no real understanding of tables, that is just wrong. Without a foundation of knowledge how can you understand the process. I don't want to get into another discussion about how lacking dive training is today.
Omigosh. My wife made me put up a wall of diving shame last year! I have my entire garage covered in dive equipment. I found things that cannot believe I ever bought. I'll never use them. Hundreds of dollars wasted.
I don't claim that people will not change and use new equipment, simply that newer users are more likely to use new equipment. It sounds obvious but is actually one of the foundations of how science progresses. Without being too blatant, I am positing that equipment changes will leave us all behind. Those users who claim so vehemently that watches and tables are all you''ll ever need, (forget those leaky unreliable computer things - they're not life support...), are doomed to languish behind. More and more users will accept newer technologies and eventually completely replace the old. How many people still have wind up (not automatic watches)? How many have automatic? Quartz. RF controlled atomic watches? BTW this is a rhetorical question - not a survey of watch types.
You know, this is the problem with online forums.
The original point was that computers are not life support. Not that they shouldn't be used. Or that they can be helpful. Not that the OP shouldn't buy one.
Just that, if you choose to, you can dive comfortably without one, therefore, not life support. Period.
It really is that simple.
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Plenty of research right here on ScubaBoard, if you're up for looking for it. Several threads in the equipment forum discussing various failures on computers.
Personally, I've had three go bad on me while diving ... two Oceanic Versa Pro's and a Suunto Vytec. In the first case, the computer gave me data I knew was bad during the dive ... and after the dive it continued to tell me that I was at between 15 and 20 fsw (this while I was driving home on I-5). In the second, it told me that I was at over 160 fsw ... even though I was at a dive site where it's impossible to get below 40 fsw without excavation equipment. In the third case, the computer would occasionally tell me I was shallower than I knew myself to be ... sometimes by more than 20 feet ... bad juju when you're doing deco stops.
Dive computers aren't any different than any other piece of electronic gear ... it can fail without notice. Jeckyll is correct that there is only a very thin, single o-ring protecting the battery compartment on most dive computers. While I wouldn't exactly call it "prone to failure", I have seen them fail and moisture get into the battery.
Also, consider that most dive equipment manufacturers will only warranty their computer for (at most) two years. After that, they will not repair them when they break ... you basically throw it away and buy a new one. That's what I had to do with my Vytec ... which is an $800 computer.
These days I dive a bottom timer. I do own two dive computers ... an Uwatec Aladdin Tec2G and an Oceanic Veo N100. I use the Tec2G in gauge mode, and the Oceanic is a spare I keep handy in case a student or dive buddy needs it.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I did my first 300+ dives with nothing more that my Omega and tables
Exactly correct, I have looked at the online manuals for a number of sport diving computers since this thread began in addition to my Aeries computer manual and they all specifically state in various wordings that they are not life support and should not be depended upon. Anyone who is depending upon one of these computers for life support is potentially fooling themselves in a bad way. You can say it till hades freezes over but the computers most of us use are not life support, they say they are not life support, you should understand the tables and multilevel calculations--on the fly---sufficient to get yourself out of a fix--with or without a computer.
It amazes me sometimes, some people have two snorkels, two masks, two regulators and two tanks and ONE computer and nothing to back it up or to confim it's operation. I know the tables well enough that I can look at the computer and check against my watch/timer and verify in my mind the computer is acting reasonably--if I am flirting with limits I want that ability. If you do have two computers there is some chance they will not agree with one another, especially if not identical models, nice to know the tables so you can say to yourself, yes, this is reasonable.
N
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