Diving Uncertified !!!!

[Fishkiller]

My son just completed the PADI SEAL TEAM program, which allows kids to dive in a pool. He was at the top of his class, "preformed just great", I would DEARLY love to take him with me to the lake and scuba dive.

Just as has been mentioned by those prior to my posting
as a Father I would never place my son in a position of danger, Oh when he is old enough to be officially certified he'll be well outfitted but he will not scuba with me outside of a pool with an instructor until he himself becomes certified to do so.

 

[Bob]

Bobb,
Don't take the boy diving, take him to a dive instructor and get him certified. There was a young man diving off ST. Pete last April and for some reason he panicked and shot straight to the suface. His friends were experienced OW divers and they failed to save him, even though he sufaced within thirty feet of the boat. Given the chance, do you think these guys would take their friend diving? His body was found in July floating off Miami Beach. Would you take this kind of chance with your own son?
As for you guys that don't think diving is difficult, you're right, it's not hard. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to stick a regulator in his mouth and a tank on his back. What it does take is some training, because diving without training will get one DEAD in a hurry. What good is experience if one doesn't have any knowledge or training to back the experience up? In that case, we do the same wrong things over and over until someone is injured or drowned in a "diving accident". If I had gone through a certification course and didn't learn anything, I'd want my money back, plus I'd find a course that would challenge me to learn. I'll get off my soapbox now. :tree:Bob

 

[Walter]

...........of this discussion.

Why pay for a class if you aren't getting any real instruction out of it? I agree, you shouldn't pay for those types of classes. OTOH, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take a class. What it means is you should be much more careful in choosing a class. Most instructors are incompetent and shouldn't be teaching. There are, however, many excellent instructors available. You need to know how to choose a good course and you need to be willing to put forth the effort in choosing a course and in completing the course.

I recommend reading the entire New Diver section at Diverlink. You can find it at http://diverlink.com/newdiver/

Holding one's breath from 20' - 30' can be disasterous, but so can such an ascent from 3'. Playing in the pool on compressed air can get an uncertified person KILLED!

There is a big difference in knowing how to dive and knowing how to teach diving. Even if your memory is perfect and you've remembered every detail of your class you do not know techniques you didn't need. You don't know the answers to questions which weren't asked in your class.

As for teaching someone how to react in emergencies -- No, you never know how someone will actually react until they are faced with the emergency. What you can do is drill skills until they become second nature. This accomplishes two things, it gives a diver comfidence and makes panic less likely and it gives the diver necessary skills to deal with emergencies.

If after reading this thread you and your son decide to skip a careful selection process and taking the training I'd have to agree with Don.

WWW™

 

[ScubaBaby]

safety we're talking about - its your own as well.

If you got into any problems, your son wouldn't be able to assist. And think about him watching you stuggling - how useless he'd feel...it would put me off diving for life if I was in his fins!

Have you considered investing £30 for a Try-Dive! He gets to experience the underwater experience with a proffessional.

By diving with your son, your opening another hole can of worms in the fact that your an O/W willing to basically dive alone - with no support for you.

Even though your son knows all the safety...he's never practised it in water with someone who knows how to teach it properly. I am just doing my DM and finding out how hard it really is to know how to teach all the skills and remember all the 5 steps etc.

I do not classify myself as an experienced diver....basically cause I live with someone who has 1000's of dives under his weight belt, but I do know this.....as an O/W diver....I wouldnt have dreamed of putting someone elses live in my hands....nor risk my own.

Pay the £30 for a try-dive....please -x-

 

[syruss32]

It really comes down to this. Is it worth saving $200-300 dollars to risk either of your lives?

If you think the value of your life is under $300 then I guess it is okay to do this, but I would recommend you re-evaluate your life.

If it is worth more than that then go get certified. Heck hold a garage sale and sell some of your old junk to pay for the certification, but being safe is very important in diving!

You'll notice on all the log books there is no little section for "Was Stupid and Died" with a checkbox.

 

[Rick Murchison]

This is a very interesting thread..
It reveals a vast array of meaning for "certified" that covers everything from "pay your money, get your card" to truly competent training.
It reveals a vast array of attitude - from the "scuba diving is no more difficult than walking" to "if you aren't certified you will die immediately if not sooner."
It reveals vast ignorance to vast experience.
It reveals some serious problems in our industry.
Very interesting indeed.
For Bobb - read Walter's post again. And Don's
Rick

 

[Butch103]

...........as someone who did take their son down 10-15 ft before he was certified (I did this on my octopus) after 2 yrs + diving I have come to realize my stupidity. In the past 6 mos I have become far more educated in diving and I don't care what anyone thinks, ..........no.....you may not learn bags of info at your couorse, maybe just the bare minmums to begin diving,.......but you will learn vast amounts thru experience and reading boards such as this and other sources. Also talking with other divers u will learn much. Experience is the best teacher, and I now am glad my experience wasn't negative. My son survived my stupidity..........maybe your son won't survive yours.

Bobb, not to be hard on u but, losing ones child because of your own mistake would be heartbreaking.

Form one Dad to another...........

Butch eace:

 

[lildiver]

Some very interesting attitudes on this thread. I have to agree with those that say pay for an OW course and get your son certified. I have 3 daughters and all 3 of them have taken the OW course and have been certified. If they wanted to dive, there never was a question about them taking the OW course. Also, I tend to agree that learning to scuba isn't that hard, BUT...learning to be a good scuba diver is a whole diferent ball game. I think becoming a good scuba diver takes a dedication and willingness to continue to practice the skills that were taught in the OW water class even after becoming certified. The more one dives, the more experience one gains and the more comfortable one becomes performing those all important skills taught in OW. Just MHO.

~lildiver

 

[Liquid]

This reply is going to be divided in two parts-First to bobb and second to spydertek

Bobb-Very bad idea. you are a new diver, do you seriousely belive that you can handle both yourself and another diver? I have quite an experience with taking none divers to introductory dives. I am an instructor and I know how to do it. You can never imagine all the things that can go wrong. And you know, if anything can go wrong, it will. There are several issues to it, that I will not discuss here, but there are dangers. I've seen quite some dive accidents and I dont think you should want to have your son's on your hands. I wouldn't even take him to the pool if I were you. maibe a bath tub, but not more than that. The chances for something terrible to happen are probably less than 10 to 1, but still, can you really consider taking such risks with your son's life?!

SpyderTek,
I'm going to be blunt here, for several reasons, amongst them your assumption that all instructors are bad and worth nothing, it offends me, as an instructor.

Who the hell do you think you are to give such advices?
what kind of training have you gone through?
What kind of knowledge about the risks involved do you have?
If bobb had gone with the dive, and something went wrong, how would YOU feel!?
An instructor can see things that another diver will not. Doing anything without proper training, beside being danegerous leave you without insurance cover, for the case that something DOES go wrong.

 

[kelpmermaid]

This may be a little harsh, but what you are suggesting makes me think of an incident that happened locally not too long ago of a father (a DM) teaching an adult child to dive off of a private boat. The "student" panicked, and the result was a double fatality. Imagine the impact on the surviving members of the family, some of whom were there to see it.

And another thought...even if you were a certified instructor, I think there are some relationships that should not get mixed, and parent/spouse/scuba instructor is one of them. I had a great relationship with my father, but his teaching me to drive the car almost ended it.