Diving Performance - Beyond Drag (article Series And Discussion)

[Eric Sedletzky]

I agree 100%. However, the internet, pictures and video has put the knowledge out there for people to see and discover. The savy manufacturers are tapping into the niche markets by offering different models of gear. You could have one do it all 30 lb wing, but you could also buy a 2nd wing at 17 lbs for travel and warm water diving. At that point, you could also have a separate travel backplate. Fins ? Stiff fins for cold water and tech dives, lightweight full foot fins for warm water boat dives. Manta Industries sells an octopus necklace. It works the same as a DIY necklace made from bungee or surgical tubing. Scubapro now sells BP/W.

I recently read a thread about a relatively new regulator hose routing option for OW recreational. It included video by Dive Rite describing routing you main reg hose under your right arm with a 90 deg adapter for streamlining purposes. Looked good to me so I tried it. Works like a charm.

Your Contour backplates have a strong following, but I can see how you ran into resistance getting shops to sell them. For them, it is about making money. If they can't make money from your product or if it cuts into sales of their other products they aren't interested.

Yes that's true about the internet, but people still have find what they want and know what they want. The internet by in large is self serve.
The initial walk in to a dive shop is still the biggest contact point with people getting in to the sport. Dive shops will still only sell certain main line items from the big names and they sell over 90% of their high dollar stuff to brand new divers. All the newest alternative gear available on the internet will only be discovered if the new divers are saavy enough to look for it or join an internet forum and find out about it that way. But I wonder how many new divers ever make it that far as to discover stuff on the internet pertaining to their new sport, 10%, 25%, 50% Who knows?
All I know is there are two parallel universes' in diving, the dive shop world and the internet world. For some reason the dive shops are really stuck and can't seem to get with the times.

 

[REVAN]

One thing that minimalist diving has over some other specialized school is that it can easily be adopted by just the casual diver where as serious tech diving can not without a lot of added gear and training.

This may be the reason for some people's impressions that lead to making a claim like:

The issue lies not in the term "requirements". It lies in the fact that you are trying (now again) to state that divers that do not see use of your gear in their diving are wrong (basically).

I don't believe I said that at all, but what I did say is that there is little reason for hydrodynamic gear to not become the new norm for mass produced scuba gear. If the mass produced gear were to adopt some of the attributes of the gear I developed, it could swim much better and the cost of manufacture would not be affected much. My gear is expensive because it is one-off prototype equipment, not because there is something inherently complicated about it.

I also said that there are things divers can do now using off the shelf equipment to get better hydrodynamics. It doesn't mean that everyone has to do this, but it is a real thing that some people do and relatively few know about. More people should know about it and that was the reason I wrote part 4 of "Diving Performance - Beyond Drag". The steps pointed out in the article are also not very expensive. The cost barrier for this type of diving is much lower than getting into tech diving.

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to make hydrodynamic gear look attractive to people. Only good things can come from better efficiency.

 

[Monofin]

Correct me if I am wrong. Sign up for a dive class and they put you in a BC.

Dive shops exist by selling equipment.

You do not need a BC for a pool dive.

True, at some point the student should be introduced to the concept and use of a BC.

BCs make it easier on the dive instructor in a pool dive.

Students end up buying a package with a BC because they think it is a required piece of safety equipment.

In reality, use of a BC can mask shortcommings in training regarding learning proper weight calculations.

Therefore, BC use is the norm even for tropical resort shallow recreational dives.

Poor training and misuse of BC and weights has caused diver fatalities.

Show up for a 80 foot boat dive in Maui without a BC and most others on the dive will have concerns about your equipment and capability.

Comments requested.

 

[ronscuba]

Correct me if I am wrong. Sign up for a dive class and they put you in a BC.

Dive shops exist by selling equipment.

You do not need a BC for a pool dive.

True, at some point the student should be introduced to the concept and use of a BC.

BCs make it easier on the dive instructor in a pool dive.

Students end up buying a package with a BC because they think it is a required piece of safety equipment.

In reality, use of a BC can mask shortcommings in training regarding learning proper weight calculations.

Therefore, BC use is the norm even for tropical resort shallow recreational dives.

Poor training and misuse of BC and weights has caused diver fatalities.

Show up for a 80 foot boat dive in Maui without a BC and most others on the dive will have concerns about your equipment and capability.

Comments requested.

All true.

I think of certification similar to having a drivers license. You have met the minimum requirements. To become a better diver and driver takes experience. It is common for divers overtime and experience to use less weight.

If an unknown diver showed up to Maui w/o a BC I suspect they would not be allowed to dive.

I did 2 dives in Oahu. I told the DM I was not wearing a wetsuit and did not need any weight. He insisted I carry 6 lbs. I was not in the mood to argue. My wife and I were on our honeymoon, to be fair to him, he probably gets a lot of newbies. On the 2nd dive, he let me dive w/o weight.

Something similar happened at Cocoview during the mandatory checkout dive on the house reef. The DM told me I forgot my weight belt. I told him I didn't need it. He said I did to at least compensate for the tank getting buoyant. I told him I would be OK, watch over me if you are concerned. Never heard from him again.

As experienced divers, we should expect to be questioned if we are doing something out of the ordinary. If I was a crew member responsible for the safety of divers, I would do the same.

 

[Monofin]

All true.

I think of certification similar to having a drivers license. You have met the minimum requirements. To become a better diver and driver takes experience. It is common for divers overtime and experience to use less weight.

If an unknown diver showed up to Maui w/o a BC I suspect they would not be allowed to dive.

I did 2 dives in Oahu. I told the DM I was not wearing a wetsuit and did not need any weight. He insisted I carry 6 lbs. I was not in the mood to argue. My wife and I were on our honeymoon, to be fair to him, he probably gets a lot of newbies. On the 2nd dive, he let me dive w/o weight.

Something similar happened at Cocoview during the mandatory checkout dive on the house reef. The DM told me I forgot my weight belt. I told him I didn't need it. He said I did to at least compensate for the tank getting buoyant. I told him I would be OK, watch over me if you are concerned. Never heard from him again.

As experienced divers, we should expect to be questioned if we are doing something out of the ordinary. If I was a crew member responsible for the safety of divers, I would do the same.

Thus, as noted in part 1 "with the normalized use of Buoyancy Compensators (BCs)" being collaborated. And, I might add "oversized BCs"

I am not saying BCs are a bad thing. Nor am I saying they should not be used in training.

I am indicating that perhaps BC use, and lack of use, is an area where current training could, in some cases, be improved and where current training has been degraded from historical training in the interest of consumerization. This can, and has, led to a decrease in safety margins in some cases.

 

[REVAN]

A Postscript to my previous post:

I think a side effect of the tech movement is that gear that looks complicated has become fashionable. I also think that in many cases that fashion has taken precedence over function. Manufacturers want to make gear that will sell, so any seismic shift in the industry starts with customers shifting perceptions of what they want to purchase.

Personally, I think streamlined looks good. To me something like this Mares Hybrid Pro Tec BCD looks ugly and dysfunctional to my style of diving. @ronscuba's bdc looks like a quantum leap improvement over this Mares product. If my designs and my videos cause others to agree with me on what looks good and what looks ugly and/or dysfunctional, I think that is great.

 

[Patoux01]

I think a side effect of the tech movement is that gear that looks complicated has become fashionable.

Funny, because "tech movement" is as simple as the gear can get. Some 2" webbing and a backplate, add 4 d-rings and you're done. Very different from what you showed in post #189 no?

 

[REVAN]

Funny, because "tech movement" is as simple as the gear can get. Some 2" webbing and a backplate, add 4 d-rings and you're done. Very different from what you showed in post #189 no?

Yes, but the assemblies can get very complicated looking simply because there are so many parts and pieces of gear involved. How do you take a simple kit with one tank and no backups and give it that complicated look and feel? Well, you can make something like the Mares BCD shown above to hold those few simple components together.

I'll add that your description in the quote above is similar to describing my kit, as extreme as some people think it is. I'd only modify it as follows: Some 2" webbing and a backplate, add 2 end-covers and you're done.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I do believe the "standard" BC is taking away from the diving experience for new divers.
Many times new divers are sold oversized BC's because they want something that will work in warm and cold water. So they buy something with plenty of lift and weight carrying capacity for the coldest environments. But a lot of them decide to do their open ocean ckeck out dives in the tropics on vacation, maybe the reason they are getting certified in the first place. So they travel with this huge BC and dive in board shorts with this giant BC which looks very out of place BTW. They struggle to get any forward movement easily because of the drag created by these overstuffed BC's. The BC itself requires 5 or 6 Lbs just to sink itself so now the diver is carrying around weight just to make the BC work, plus whatever additional weight the instructor decides they need.
So they trudge along with a bunch of uneeded air in the bladder to offset the uneeded weight that was hung on them. If they stop kicking they stop in their tracks, there is very little "glide" with the configuration they are diving. It's like having a parking brake on all the time. It's really a shame. But since the modern BC has now become standard safety equipment this is how it is. If only those new divers could realize how much free-er and faster they could be with out diving with all the encumberances of jacket BC's.
But unfortunately this is how it's currently set up.
It needs to change or at least needs to change for those that are looking for a better way. But I wouldn't look to any of the agencies or the established industry to make any changes ever. It's just too sweet of a deal for them the way it is. They don't care about effieciency, the only efficiency they care about is how efficient the money flows into their bank accounts. It's really a racket.

So what do we do with all this?
Well, I used to do talks at dive club meetings, we post on internet forums, we talk to people that look at our gear on dive boats, we talk to people that see us on the beach. There are ways to create interest which leads to demand but it takes action.
"Those that get involved are the ones that end up in charge".

 

[Monofin]

I agree, and furthermore, this is a large part of the reason I have so few dives. Some people are techies and drawn to the gear. I like the simple stuff. Skinny diving is the best.

It is difficult to get the word out. It's like people cover their ears and say "Don't say that!"

Looks like this list is down to about 3 or 4 followers.

Fjpatrum is a good example. Not saying what he does is wrong but I do not understand those who are so closed minded that they are unable to look around the corner and observe what is happening in the rest of the world.

There is a saying that there are three kinds if people. Those that make things happen. Those who follow what is happening. And, those who wonder what has happened.

I strive to at least be in the second group.

Fjpatrum, if you are lurking, I would like to continue this discussion. No offence intended. I believe it is helpful in general for all to strive to be in the first group, the one that makes things happen. That is how we make progress and improve our world.