Diving Insurance/Local Emergency Question

[scubadobadoo]

I just sent a long letter to DAN asking them to explain the "50 mile" part of the policy. I'll be sure to post the answer. In the meantime, if you would like the answer sooner then call DAN at 1-800-446-2671.

I believe that the research that DAN conducts is very important. A good insurance policy is great but an insurance policy that also researches your future safety is even better.

On another note, the Dive Assure insurance does look pretty good too! Nonetheless, DAN membership is still worth looking into even if you don't choose them for insurance as well. DSAO!

 

[jeffinhburg]

My limited understanding is that Dive Assure has a similar 50 mile issue. Now, if only we could understand it. In one place, I see transportation to nearest acceptable facility, and in another, an exclusion on evacuation close to home.

With regard to DAN's work, I see no contradiction with separately supporting DAN through dues/contributions and having different insurance. Yes, I understand that part of the insurance profits or commissions get earmarked to the research, but that does not convince me to get insurance that does not cover what I need covered.

With probably 90% of my dives close to home, and a lot of snorkeling with the nondiving DGF and kids, in addition to diving, it looks like the PADI insurance is more likely to cover items that result from the most likely injuries I may incur.

Wish I could pick from a Chinese menu!

I just sent a long letter to DAN asking them to explain the "50 mile" part of the policy. I'll be sure to post the answer. In the meantime, if you would like the answer sooner then call DAN at 1-800-446-2671.

I believe that the research that DAN conducts is very important. A good insurance policy is great but an insurance policy that also researches your future safety is even better.

On another note, the Dive Assure insurance does look pretty good too! Nonetheless, DAN membership is still worth looking into even if you don't choose them for insurance as well. DSAO!

 

[knotical]

As Jan mentioned, DAN provides secondary insurance. Could this be at least part of the answer? My primary insurance covers transportation within 50 miles of home <and beyond, actually>.

 

[jeffinhburg]

As Jan mentioned, DAN provides secondary insurance. Could this be at least part of the answer? My primary insurance covers transportation within 50 miles of home <and beyond, actually>.

I don't think so, but maybe things are different where you live. My primary is supposedly the standard for good policies where I live, and it excludes a large portion of the costs of problems due to supposedly dangerous activities. Compressed air on back=no assurance of coverage. Reports I have heard are that they tended to pay without a lot of questions about what happened when people on similar policies needed stitches or casts from "minor" mishaps surrounding diving, but they claim that they do not have to, and if the treatment included chamber rides, I would bet that the questions would come up and the case flagged.

 

[Peter McGuinness]

My understanding after reading the DAN handbook and the insurance contract (I have DAN insurance) is that the emergency evacuation with 50 mile exclusion is part of the DAN travel assist which you get when you buy a DAN membership. You don't need insurance to get this benefit, but it covers ONLY evacuation not the subsequent medical treatment.

When you then buy dive accident insurance, you get evacuation assistance from any accident site anywhere in the world, including your backyard pool, should you happen to be diving in it. On the other hand, DAN will not evacuate your family members from within 50 miles of your home under this scenario, as they would if you were travelling together. The bottom line is that you WILL be taken to hospital free of charge.

Here are the first three benefits payable under the preferred insurance scheme:
(I have used the QUOTE tag for convenience; this has not been posted elsewhere)

Eligible charges include:
1. Hyperbaric Chamber Treatment Charges for up to seven treatments per Covered Diving Accident.
Any treatment after the seventh must be pre-certified by National Baromedical Services at (800) 292-
8381;
2. Physician’s charges for Hyperbaric Chamber Treatment, medical care and surgical operations;
3. Ambulance charges for transportation by a professional ground, air or marine ambulance service to
the nearest Hospital or Hyperbaric Chamber where appropriate care or treatment can be given. All
transportation involving air or marine ambulance service must be approved in advance by DAN
TravelAssist to be eligible for reimbursement;

There are no exclusions for distance in the contract.

And here is the definition of a covered dive:

Covered Dive means a recreational dive or diving while a scuba instructor, dive master, underwater
photographer, or while performing research under the auspices and following the diving safety guidelines
of the American Academy of Underwater Scientists (AAUS). A dive begins upon entry into the water
and ends upon exit from the water. A Covered Dive must begin while Coverage is in force.

There is no definition of what constitutes 'water' for the purpose of the contract, so all water of all types and in all locations must be included.

This is my layman's reading of the situation; I hope this helps.

Peter

 

[Peter McGuinness]

By the way, you asked about location of diving medical facilities; here is a link to a page which seems to have a comprehensive list. I can't speak for other areas, but the San Diego locations seem accurate.

http://www.scuba-doc.com/divcal.htm

cheers,
Peter

 

[scubadobadoo]

I just spoke to a friendly DAN employee who really couldn't answer the questions we all have but she transfered me to an actual agent of the insurance company that DAN uses for coverage. Here is the deal. I'll try to be clear.

If you are diving in LA (insert your own home) and are injured on an LA beach/boat that is within 50 miles from your home at the time of the accident and need to be evacuated (by any means) to a hospital or chamber then that evacuation WILL NOT be covered. Once at the hospital/chamber, all your bills WILL be covered.

If you are on a boat 51 miles away from your LA home, even if it is an LA boat, and you need to be evacuated from this boat after a dive related accident then your evacuation WILL be covered even if the hospital is around the corner from your LA home. So, the 50 mile radius becomes very important. It's not where the chamber/hospital is located, but where the accident originally happened that matters the most. Basically, you need to be more than 50 miles away from your home at the time of an accident to be covered for ANY evacution other than driving yourself to a hospital. SO, try not to kill yourselves until you get 51 miles away from home, okay? Ofcourse, this is all assuming the person I was speaking to really knew her stuff. I have frequently called a business three times and been given three dif. answers.

The insurance agent I spoke to suggested I call Travel Gaurd at 888-826-1300 to see if they supply supplimental insurance to pay for local evacs.

When I renew my inusrance next year I will be looking into other options. Take care all. I will still post the response I will get by email and then we will compare that to what I was told over the phone.

 

[pasley]

... I noticed that DAN has a 50-mile from home exclusion limit before it covers evacuations. At first, I was concerned about this but I am wondering how a rescue requiring decompression would really take place here. Would it involve an air evacuation or would it typically involve an ambulance? I am trying to balance insurance coverage with reality. As a side note, where are the chambers here in SoCal? I assume DAN and other agencies would cover the chamber charge in any case, but it's the actual evacuation that I'm concerned about. If it helps, I live in South Orange County.

thanks!

In reading the DAN manual, I see a 50 mile exclusion for NON-DIVING accidents. but do not see that restriction on diving-indicents.

Next, we need to define evacuations - are they talking about retuning you to your home country or the initial ambulance ride to the hospital? I don't know the answer, but my read is the 50 miles exclusion would not stop DAN from covering an ambulance ride to the hospital if I had a diving related accident (bent or such).

Last of all, DAN will direct you to the nearest chamber facility. They don't publish a list because A. The list changes, B. They want you to call first so they can direct you to the closest chamber that is open. C. Just because a facility has a chamber does not mean they treat dive injuries.

That said, I have dove the chamber at Long Beach Memorial Hospital. There are other chambers in the area too.

 

[Peter McGuinness]

In reading the DAN manual, I see a 50 mile exclusionfor NON-DIVING accidents. but do not see that restriction on diving-indicents.

Melvin,
I agree with you about that: the 50 mile evacuation is for any medical emergency, not just diving, and they will get your family home too if the existing travel plans have been made impossible by the emergency.

Another important point is that this is travel assist and has nothing to do with the dive accident insurance, which costs extra and definitely does cover transport to a medical facility wherever you happen to be. It is very important, though, that you call DAN to arrange the evac as they will not reimburse you for out of pocket expenses.

Maybe DAN should make this more clear; I agree it is confusing and it was a concern I had before I got my DAN insurance. Actually, the thing which swung it was the 'no depth limit' feature. I did not want to be in the situation where some lawyer gets hold of my computer and spots that I went to 131ft, then refuses to cough up the dosh.

Peter

 

[jeffinhburg]

I'm still not sure it's a matter of making it clear. One of the mags had a review and also stated that evacs from within 50 miles of home are not covered, too. I would think that if it weren't true, the insurer would respond. With all the conversation on this on at least two different threads, I would also like to think that someone with DAN would get a hold of the underwriter and really clear it up. I think my answer is to join DAN so I feel better about using them for info in a pinch, and insure with PADI. Might be the best of both worlds that way.

The answer from scubadobadoo seems perfectly clear - just not what we'd want to hear. This is becoming a much more time consuming and complicated decision than I thought or would have hoped. I also cannot find language limiting evac for diving incidents to over 50 miles in the actual insurance certificates. This muddies it further, but one thing I'm sure of - if the insurance company does not think it's covered, I don't want to be in the hospital trying to fight them on that point.

Melvin,
I agree with you about that: the 50 mile evacuation is for any medical emergency, not just diving, and they will get your family home too if the existing travel plans have been made impossible by the emergency.

Another important point is that this is travel assist and has nothing to do with the dive accident insurance, which costs extra and definitely does cover transport to a medical facility wherever you happen to be. It is very important, though, that you call DAN to arrange the evac as they will not reimburse you for out of pocket expenses.

Maybe DAN should make this more clear; I agree it is confusing and it was a concern I had before I got my DAN insurance. Actually, the thing which swung it was the 'no depth limit' feature. I did not want to be in the situation where some lawyer gets hold of my computer and spots that I went to 131ft, then refuses to cough up the dosh.

Peter