Diving incident at Eagles Nest Sink

[The Chairman]

You two have missed the point. I don't need answers NOW. I want answers at some point. @kensuf you gave some great info. Kudos to you for that. This is the first time I can remember where we have been promised some answers and even an investigation. We don't even know why the other accidents don't merit an investigation.

Because you persist in calling for info when the recovery divers aren't even dry.

Oh the drama!!! Aren't even dry? Dude, this is the very stuff gossip is made of. I asked yesterday after I heard lots of info through the gossip mill.

Your incessant and selfish clamoring for instant accident information is tiresome.

Oh the drama part II. I would like a timely release of data, but I never asked for 'instant'. I simply object to NO data being released on most accidents. These disclosures have been a dramatic departure from the status quo and I like it. I want to see it on every accident. Is it selfish for me to want to know how people died so I don't follow them? Then most of us fall in that category. You want to revile me for that? Revile yourself at the same time.

I've been part of two body recoveries, though not in caves. I am not there yet, and I might never be. I don't know that I would want to be, though I would help topside if asked and I were close enough. I've never dove Eagle's Nest and don't particularly want to... especially after this. There's nothing down there worth dying for.

 

[drrich2]

Kristi:

Thank you for your service in what sounds to be a very long, tedious and rather horrific task. I sympathize with your frustration at the arm chair quarterbacking that's entrenched in our culture, heavily enabled to the social networking of the internet.

People's religions, whatever they are, encompass that which is most sacred to them. Combining such with 'damn' in the service of posting seeking respect and understanding is not persuasive.

While people out in the general public are not owed a release of all data & info. held by investigators and authorities, and your point was well made that there are valid reasons people who aid in investigation/recovery shouldn't get on social media posting everything they know ASAP (if ever), it's also true people will speculate and discuss. I don't that's meant to communicate that such speculations will be presumed true until proven otherwise.

Sometimes discussions of things that didn't happen in the specific case involved still turn out to be educational.

We've also learned over time that in some cases what's known seems to never get disclosed to the general public. I wonder if what % of dive fatality cases we eventually see a detailed official account of what happened? And in what time frame does that tend to occur?

Richard.

 

[Doby45]

I sympathize with your frustration at the arm chair quarterbacking that's entrenched in our culture, heavily enabled to the social networking of the internet.

Amen brother, try being a law enforcement officer right now.

 

[oya]

I wonder if what % of dive fatality cases we eventually see a detailed official account of what happened?

DAN maintains a pretty comprehensive searchable accident database and publishes an "annual" report (that's getting a whole lot more annual).

 

[lanta]

Sometimes discussions of things that didn't happen in the specific case involved still turn out to be educational.

This is very true. In some threads the questions asked are more valuable to me than the answers given.

 

[laikabear]

The Good Morning America segment Pete mentioned.

 

[rjack321]

Oh the drama!!! Aren't even dry? Dude, this is the very stuff gossip is made of. I asked yesterday after I heard lots of info through the gossip mill.

The recovery concluded 2 days ago. And you've been complaining here, on facebook, and just about every social media outlet I follow for a day plus. So yea "not even dry" is pretty accurate.

 

[PfcAJ]

The recovery concluded 2 days ago. And you've been complaining here, on facebook, and just about every social media outlet I follow for a day plus. So yea "not even dry" is pretty accurate.

Fwiw, I haven't even unloaded my truck yet. Just submitted my statement yesterday.

I actually believe a report of facts will be delivered. And I'm no fan of the iucrr's handling of a lot of these things, and I haven't hidden how I feel about it all.

That said, I will do what is asked of me and what is needed by the families and/or landowners regardless of what the iucrr does or does not do.

 

[ofg-1]

They don't get the need for us to figure out why this stuff happens. .

Now Pete, for the sake of, hopefully, a rational discussion, what difference does it make of you figure out why this happened? You already know. 99% of cave accidents fall into 3 basic groups:
1 - Diver Error - including panic, and or diving beyond your training and experience, and many other errors.
2 - Equipment failure
3 - Medical condition

What do we change about anything? You are going to believe that you just cant make the same error that that idiot did. You are going to keep using your equipment, I do not remember any piece of gear being so dangerous that there was not people that keeps using it, even when its called "Yellow Box of Death". And, I am one of the old men that needs to go to the effing gym, and I know it. But, I will drag my fat aged ass and gear to the springs and keep going.

So we have had this trend for several years, and it always winds up being one or a combination of these three things. What exactly do you want to learn?

 

[Kevrumbo]

Condolences to all involved. I just went back and read the threads from 2004 after realizing where this was located. Ugh....

Just reading about the recovery operations involved is a harrowing sobering account in itself. . .

Good informative article & historical archive from Curt Bowen's ADM (p. 28) and a better objective perspective on the challenges of this infamous divesite, especially at the Pit Restriction:
Eagle's Nest Incident (12 June 2004) Recovery Logistics