Diving "Etiquette" and the lack thereof

[Cave Diver]

I really don't see that the other diver is important to this discussion. Without the Master Diver here to post his experience in his words, it's impossible to say what really happened, and but it sounds like the other diver checked on the MD who did not communicate a need for help so the other diver probly returned to his primary responsibility as wing man for his own buddy. I've never dived that location, but from the many drift dives I've done in Cozumel - you gotta stay with your own buddy or it's over.

It's ok if you don't see why it's important, the question was for Joyful.

The reason I asked is because I wanted to know if she witnessed the improper behavior herself, or if she was basing his perceived rudeness from a second hand account of events from her dive buddy.

 

[Cave Diver]

Addressing the OP...

A good lesson in why basic skills are important....and we never get 'too' experienced to ignore the common sense lessons on the entry level scuba courses....

1. Broken LPI hose = Oral BCD Inflation. This is practised on OW confined water training.

Many people are referencing a faulty inflator hose, when it seems that the OP is talking about a seperation of the corrugated hose where it connects to the shoulder dump valve.

Still manageable, but not through oral inflation.

I've asked the OP to clarify the exact nature of the failure so we can have a better understanding.

If the dump valve broke at the surface as the diver was releasing air, this could account for part of the buddy seperation problem as they were unable to control venting of the BCD and dropping at a faster than normal rate. If this actually did occur and the diver realized it, assuming a slightly head down attitude or rolling to the opposite could have trapped air and slowed the descent.

 

[Thalassamania]

What is the big deal? Corrugated hose came loose from gooseneck, take off rig, refit and don't do a pull dump till repaired.

 

[Cave Diver]

What is the big deal? Corrugated hose came loose from gooseneck, take off rig, refit and don't do a pull dump till repaired.

Whether the hose came loose, whether the dump broke or anything else is just speculation at this point. I've seen nothing that clearly states the nature of the problem, which is why I asked.

It's not a big deal for you. For me. For many of the others that have posted here. But if the diver in question was uncomfortable with the failure, then calling the dive was their best course of action.

 

[Thalassamania]

Call the dive when it doesn't feel right, I know I have (do).

 

[Cave Diver]

Call the dive when it doesn't feel right, I know I have (do).

100% agreement.

 

[DevonDiver]

Many people are referencing a faulty inflator hose, when it seems that the OP is talking about a seperation of the corrugated hose where it connects to the shoulder dump valve.

Still manageable, but not through oral inflation.

True... I had skimmed the thread...and had only referenced the "broken LPI hose".

As you say... going slightly head down would keep some air in the bcd/wing and reduce the descent speed.

However, in the first place, a recreational diver should not be weighted so that they cannot fin upwards, assuming a complete bcd failure.

If the dump valve broke at the surface as the diver was releasing air, this could account for part of the buddy seperation problem as they were unable to control venting of the BCD and dropping at a faster than normal rate.

Proper buddy procedures...including the anticipation of problems in the initial stages of a dive... would have prevented this.

If the buddy was sufficiently close...and sufficiently observant...then the problem (the descent) could have been easily arrested at the surface.

Another issue is the dropping of weight belt. What would have happened if this dive had been on a deep wall? It seems that the only thing to arrest their descent was the bottom at 80ft. What if the bottom was at 300ft?

At what point in an uncontrolled descent should it occur to divers to ditch their weights?

 

[Cave Diver]

Proper buddy procedures...including the anticipation of problems in the initial stages of a dive... would have prevented this.

If the buddy was sufficiently close...and sufficiently observant...then the problem (the descent) could have been easily arrested at the surface.

Another issue is the dropping of weight belt. What would have happened if this dive had been on a deep wall? It seems that the only thing to arrest their descent was the bottom at 80ft. What if the bottom was at 300ft?

At what point in an uncontrolled descent should it occur to divers to ditch their weights?

At the risk of taking an unpopular stance, I'm going to disagree with some of this.

Going on the assumption that the entire dump valve broke, (because I've had one do this before), as he vented to submerge, it could cause a more rapid air loss and subsequent descent than the buddy might initially be able to keep up with. Especially if they have any sort of equalization problems and need to descend slow.

Additionally, if there are potentially other divers below, just dropping the weight belt is not an optimal situation either.

Long and short of it is, that like most incidents, there really isnt enough information from any of us to "armchair quarterback" it to the best possible conclusion. The best we can do is speculate and propose potential courses of action based on the information available and inferred.

I would think that the dive briefing included depth for the site, so the diver was aware that there was a hard bottom. At this point its tough to tell if the descent was completely out of control til they crashed into the bottom, or if they just choose to use the bottom as a platform to sort the problem out. From the original post, it doesnt seem to have been a panic situation, so I'm going with the latter thought.

 

[DandyDon]

True... I had skimmed the thread...and had only referenced the "broken LPI hose".

As you say... going slightly head down would keep some air in the bcd/wing and reduce the descent speed.

However, in the first place, a recreational diver should not be weighted so that they cannot fin upwards, assuming a complete bcd failure.

Maybe not, but it happens. I've miscalculated my weights at times, switching between 1, 3, 5, and 7 mil suits, FW vs SW, etc - and I usually have an extra negative from the pony I like to carry as I try to figure my weights without it.

Proper buddy procedures...including the anticipation of problems in the initial stages of a dive... would have prevented this.

If the buddy was sufficiently close...and sufficiently observant...then the problem (the descent) could have been easily arrested at the surface.

Another issue is the dropping of weight belt. What would have happened if this dive had been on a deep wall? It seems that the only thing to arrest their descent was the bottom at 80ft. What if the bottom was at 300ft?

At what point in an uncontrolled descent should it occur to divers to ditch their weights?

Getting off on tangents with that question? But there have indeed been many deaths of divers unable to get & stay buoyant, more common on the surface I think - and the bodies are usually found with weights still attached. When caca hits the fan, get buoyant! If you need to drop a pouch, do it and a canvas pouch of 5-10# isn't likely to injure anyone if it hits one below. A web belt of 20-30# hard lead would a different consideration of course; all or nothing to drop, and a big hit if anyone below. At the time of the caca fan collision, you do your best, but you do.

In this case, sounds like the MD chose to use the known bottom to work on his problem. On a Cozumel drift dive, if my bud dropped below me - I could still watch him and angle my descent to get to him if I had not already drifted too far in a hard current. I don't know how hard the current was here nor the viz, but watching your buddy closely on descent is important. Kinda think that failed here...?

 

[TSandM]

JoyfulLee, what I hear in the original post is that you were frightened for your buddy, and angry that the other diver didn't provide the help you think was needed. Fear often turns to anger . . . I ended up having to apologize to one of my teammates on Sunday, because I got into a situation that frightened me, and I blew up at him, and I was much harsher than the situation warranted. I think that's kind of where you were, and what the almost unanimous reaction has been is to tell you that there wasn't that much to be frightened about, that the other diver probably did what was appropriate, and that you both may have brought his reaction upon yourselves by the manner in which you were conducting your dive.

We dive as buddies because things go wrong. Equipment sometimes fails, and even more often, WE fail -- in technique, in planning, in decision-making, or whatever. Your buddy is there as redundant thinking, as well as redundant gas and redundant gear. When you are alone in the water, you have said to the diving world that you have decided you can handle your issues alone. There are people who dive solo, and people who dive in pairs but with a solo mentality -- but in general they have or should have reached a level of competence where they can handle the vast majority of problems with equanimity by themselves. It sounds as though your BF actually did this -- assessing the loss of buoyancy and deciding not to continue the dive, and ditching weight and swimming up. We can ask some questions about appropriate weighting, if he could not swim his single tank rig up without dropping weights, but in very thick neoprene, this may be possible. Nonetheless, he coped and ended the dive safely. This was what the other diver clearly thought he would do, and it's probably what I would have expected, had I run into a solo diver with a torn inflator hose. I would also have expected that such a diver, if he felt unable to cope alone, would have emphatically signaled me to stay with him and assist.

I don't know why you guys feel that descending separately and catching up maybe later on a drift dive, when you're as inexperienced as you are, is a valid concept, but then again, I'm a died-in-the-wool team diver, and such a thing is inconceivable to me. But if you guys feel that strategy is acceptable, you both need to be prepared to handle anything the dive throws at you -- and that includes failures of buoyancy AND gas loss, as well as entanglement, getting lost, losing a mask, or any other number of diving problems. Me -- I'm not at all happy about planning on coping with those things alone, so I dive with a team.

Yesterday, we got our butts chewed in a class for being unable to keep our team together and on the descent line, in about three feet of viz in significant current. That's because we believe that being together and there for one another is the highest priority in diving. You can make other decisions, but then you have to live with the consequences of them.

Mull this over, and decide whether you want to revise your diving practices a bit.