Diving "Etiquette" and the lack thereof

[Tigerman]

There is a few posts in this thread, which I havent read in full, that is pretty blunt.
However, I do agree that you should not leave your buddy and you should have a specific buddy or you should be preparing and diving as you where truely solo.
You should always know where your buddy are and if you dont you should commence search procedures.
If youre unable to swim to the surface with a empty BC, you are owerweighted. If its by choice or not is a topic of its own.
Yes, he did the right thing aborting the dive, however the op should have followed him to the surface and aborted with him or gone back down teaming up with another diver and he also did the right thing ditching weight as he needed it. And yes, he did do well staying calm in what to him, given the circumstances was a beginning emergency.

 

[thanksforallthefish]

The OP and her buddy made some mistakes, but who has not, and they have all been pointed out sufficiently.

The original concern was the lack of assistance provided by the other diver ... it intrigues me that the OP has not stated what communication happened between her buddy and the other diver.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Yes, I'm a fairly new diver with close to 40 dives under my belt. What I guess I'm not is thick-skinned enough to deal with argumentative comments. I want to learn as I love the sport. But I'd prefer to learn without people being mean in how they "teach" me with their commentary and prose. Don't get me wrong, some of the comments have been quite insightful while others have been downright combative. Those types of comments make me wish I never posted my comments.

FYI - to those who've asked - while Lee was descending due to equipment failure that I was unaware of, I was on the surface struggling to get down. By the time I got to the bottom, I assumed the current had taken him on with the group and I quickly tried to catch up and find him. Perhaps I should have stated that from the beginning of my post but I did not see it to be relevant.

Apparently no matter how I would state it, some of you lofty, more experienced divers would find a problem with what is written and a way to poke holes in it. Cest la vie...

Some people are blunt in their presentation.... it takes a bit to get used to that. Fact is in a private environment we "choose" who we communicate with. Those we find abrasive we avoid. We don't have that luxury here, when we ask a question we will get everything from nice to nasty... enjoy the nice... but learn from all! It is a harder for some of us to learn from the gruff presentation but if we are wise we will do just that! Many of the posters are experienced divers and instructors whose knowledge should be respected even if their presentation isn't easy to swallow!

Hatred? No hatred here, just trying to provide some thoughts on a situation as it was presented to me. I am happy to admit that I have a lot to learn. Perhaps you and your friend should also turn things around and look inward for some degree of fallacy as well.

Well put!

This is funny since no one was hurt. "Lee and I are both independent divers so I was certain we'd connect somewhere along the drift dive." :shocked2: Darwin candidate or do you already have children?

BTW, I am posting as a maverick attitude diver as well who learned to admit my mistakes better in this same sub-forum. I'm not suggesting something I haven't done myself. You'll learn much more off of your high horse than riding it.

Female poster confirmed. Maybe some other lady divers would like to help out here since we don't speak girl talk?

Yeah, learning is the thing here. We like it to be fun, but most of all do learn.

:dohAndy It was obvious the OP was feeling a tad attacked here and until your posts I figured people were being perhaps blunt but I hadn't seen anyone just being nasty! IMHO you are still firmly mounted on your own high horse here! If the purpose of you post was to "help" the OP see the error of her ways I suspect you lost all chance of that with your opening line and cemented it with your conclusion. You have posted some great info on SB I would hate for this rant to close the OP's mind to all those.

I am a female but I speak English not "girl speak" and I don't assume anything about a person, what they say or how they dive based on gendre!

I really don't think this is a female vs. male issue. I think this has more to do with attitude, how much responsibility one takes for oneself, one's willingness to learn from their mistakes, indeed, to even admit a mistake happened.

fairybasslet You are dead on accurate here and I think there are lots of lessons to be learned here and not just about diving. Reexamining communication skills is worthwhile as well. People are less inclined to listen if they are offended but some of us get offended easier than others too. I admit I have had to learn a bit of that here too.

So let me recap

A) If you are going to dive solo (independant) be prepared, properly trained and qualified to do so with all the right equipment

B) If A does not apply all of the following DO APPLY

1) Buddy check
2) Communicate with your buddy at the surface... agree when you are going to descend.
3) As you start to descend face your buddy and make sure they are descending as well... (this way if they can't "get down" you can stay with them or surface to assist
4) At the bottom before commencing the dive make sure both you and your buddy's equipment is okay and you are ready to continue the dive
5) During the dive maintain buddy contact suitable to the conditions
6) Follow appropriate lost buddy proceedure if you lose your buddy. (If diving with a DM or Group advise someone else to assist if reasonably possible)

I agree with most ... the other diver had a respnsibility to their buddy that over rode their responsibility to stay with someone else that did not appear to be imminent danger as evidenced by his safely executing an exit. It would be interesting to know if your buddy indicated to that other diver that he was in trouble or reflexively gave the OK signal when he indicated the inflater hose. Many divers would not consider a problem such as discribed to be a significant event.

I don't know what the proceedure is there but I have done a lot of Group dives and a lot of drift and boat dives and I have always had a buddy! Short of getting Solo Diver Certification I will always have a buddy and follow the training I was given as above. I have also learned a lot from some of the Gruff ole Condgers on SB :worship:

 

[Cave Diver]

JoyfulLee - Two questions:

1) Can you expand in detail on the exact nature of the gear failure?

2) Did you witness any of the interaction between the two divers, or did you just hear about it after the fact?

 

[Sas]

The OP and her buddy made some mistakes, but who has not, and they have all been pointed out sufficiently.

The original concern was the lack of assistance provided by the other diver ... it intrigues me that the OP has not stated what communication happened between her buddy and the other diver.

Yes I was wondering about that too. I am not sure I would have stayed and helped him either if he did not appear to be in distress (and I would not expect that type of equipment failure to lead to distress). It was a drift dive so staying and helping might have meant seperation from my own buddy. If he was in distress that is a different story and I would expect a decent person to stay behind to help generally, unless their own buddy was inexperienced and then I would have to weigh up the situation and whether my own buddy could become distressed at being seperated from me. My buddy's wellbeing takes priority over other divers.

The OP has not posted what was actually said between the two? JoyfulLee, did you talk to this diver after the dive had finished? They might have a perfectly reasonable explanation of why they did not stay to help your buddy. I would have done that before posting negatively about them on an internet forum.

 

[DandyDon]

:dohAndy It was obvious the OP was feeling a tad attacked here and until your posts I figured people were being perhaps blunt but I hadn't seen anyone just being nasty! IMHO you are still firmly mounted on your own high horse here! If the purpose of you post was to "help" the OP see the error of her ways I suspect you lost all chance of that with your opening line and cemented it with your conclusion. You have posted some great info on SB I would hate for this rant to close the OP's mind to all those.

I am a female but I speak English not "girl speak" and I don't assume anything about a person, what they say or how they dive based on gendre!

Yeah, maybe my "Darwin award candidate" crack was a bit much but when a :newbie: posts about being an "independent diver," in a FAIL thread, alarms go off.

I've had my share of FAILs tho, posted my worst ones here - sometimes having to learn from the same sort of "you fool!" replies about my inability to accept my own mistakes that caused my problems. I learned to stop defending my mistakes so I could learn from the critical suggestions offered and would suggest the same to Joy.

As far as assuming "anything about a person, what they say or how they dive based on gender," you'll notice that my remark there came after she played the drama queen card, referencing "all the pissy and petty comments... I can almost see the men pounding their chests and grunting" so I stand by response. The only general differences I've noticed between the genders in diving is that women seem to burn less air but get chilled more easily; the safety standards are the same, and there is no argument about differing abilities in the genders as there are none to discuss.

Joy is apparently still reading comments and thanking some of them, so great.

JoyfulLee - Two questions:

1) Can you expand in detail on the exact nature of the gear failure?

2) Did you witness any of the interaction between the two divers, or did you just hear about it after the fact?

I really don't see that the other diver is important to this discussion. Without the Master Diver here to post his experience in his words, it's impossible to say what really happened, and but it sounds like the other diver checked on the MD who did not communicate a need for help so the other diver probly returned to his primary responsibility as wing man for his own buddy. I've never dived that location, but from the many drift dives I've done in Cozumel - you gotta stay with your own buddy or it's over.

 

[Splitlip]

Yes I was wondering about that too. I am not sure I would have stayed and helped him either if he did not appear to be in distress (and I would not expect that type of equipment failure to lead to distress). It was a drift dive so staying and helping might have meant seperation from my own buddy. If he was in distress that is a different story and I would expect a decent person to stay behind to help generally, unless their own buddy was inexperienced and then I would have to weigh up the situation and whether my own buddy could become distressed at being seperated from me. My buddy's wellbeing takes priority over other divers.

The OP has not posted what was actually said between the two? JoyfulLee, did you talk to this diver after the dive had finished? They might have a perfectly reasonable explanation of why they did not stay to help your buddy. I would have done that before posting negatively about them on an internet forum.

I can tell you this. If my buddy was my teenage daughter, I would be gone to hook up with her.

I am not a bad guy. I have saved two victims in my life. But my "buddy" would be number 1.

That aside, the guy should have been able to swim his rig. (oh wait, he did after ditching excess weight). So....

For OP. What kind of exposure protection were you guys wearing? 3mil? At the risk of sounding like my Dad, you should have been able to do that dive without a BC. A bc is really just a convenience here. It's loss here was not a life threatening issue, and the other diver probably knew that.

Editorial comment: "When did BCD's become flotation devices?" The news media calling them "life vests" or stupid training agencies running people through certifications "without training"?

 

[bowlofpetunias]

As far as assuming "anything about a person, what they say or how they dive based on gender," you'll notice that my remark there came after she played the drama queen card, referencing "all the pissy and petty comments... I can almost see the men pounding their chests and grunting" so I stand by response. The only general differences I've noticed between the genders in diving is that women seem to burn less air but get chilled more easily; the safety standards are the same, and there is no argument about differing abilities in the genders as there are none to discuss.

:worship: I hope since the OP is still reading that she recognizes the class you are IMO showing here. I called you out you accepted responsibility for what you owed but nothing more :worship:

I was actually going to quote the OP for that comment but my post was getting too long... I am way too verbose That is what I was trying to get at with my comments about people looking at their communication skills but I was probably trying to soft peddle it too much

 

[DevonDiver]

Addressing the OP...

A good lesson in why basic skills are important....and we never get 'too' experienced to ignore the common sense lessons on the entry level scuba courses....

1. Broken LPI hose = Oral BCD Inflation. This is practised on OW confined water training.

2. Inability to communicate a problem = Not adhering to buddy system, not establishing communication procedures during pre-dive safety check.

3. Inability to 'swim' up = over-weighting. This can be remedied on the dive...just remove one or more individual weights, rather than dropping the whole weight belt.

4. Solo 'emergency' ascent = Not adhering to buddy system on the dive, impatience and/or panic. Poor decision making, provoked by poor pre-planning of emergency procedures and weak dive knowledge.

I believe strongly that none of us are so good, or so experienced, that we can risk ignoring the basics.....

 

[Tigerman]

...
1. Broken LPI hose = Oral BCD Inflation. This is practised on OW confined water training.
...

As far as I can tell, the problem here was that the hose into the BCD came off, meaning no air would go in wether you tried the powerinflator or oral inflation, rendering your BCD completely useless for anything but attaching stuff.

Ive seen this happen once myself. It actually happened before we went into the water, we where aware of it and the diver who had the problem simply ignored it and got the hose replaced later. It had actually broken off just where it goes into the BC.