Diving "Etiquette" and the lack thereof

[Walter]

Jupiter diver here with one small point which may have relevance. The current is often much too fast to swim against. Buddies hook up when one stops, takes finger or gets low. The up stream buddy drifts to the down stream buddy.

I have lots of experience in currents too strong to swim against. The key to buddy teams staying together is to never get apart. In my opinion, this particular separation was the result of Lee descending when Joyful was unable to descend. He deserted her. The last time I was in Jupiter, conditions were far from ideal. On the first dive Nancy had difficulty equalizing. We made the descent together at her pace. On the second dive, she had no trouble equalizing, but upon noticing we had only 2 feet of visibility, we deployed a buddy line to take no chance of separation.

 

[bryanmc57]

I've read this entire thread. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is, what the communication between Lee and the other diver was. The OP is upset that the other diver didn't offer assistance, but if he pointed out the problem and "ok?" "ok" was exchanged, Lee wasn't asking for help. Perhaps she feels that the other diver should have helped regardless. Obviously Lee (despite how he got into the predicament) reacted properly.

 

[Cave Diver]

I've read this entire thread. The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is, what the communication between Lee and the other diver was. The OP is upset that the other diver didn't offer assistance, but if he pointed out the problem and "ok?" "ok" was exchanged, Lee wasn't asking for help. Perhaps she feels that the other diver should have helped regardless. Obviously Lee (despite how he got into the predicament) reacted properly.

I asked a similar question earlier in the thread, but it hasn't been answered. Another poster told me it wasn't relevant to the discussion.

JoyfulLee - Two questions:

1) Can you expand in detail on the exact nature of the gear failure?

2) Did you witness any of the interaction between the two divers, or did you just hear about it after the fact?

 

[Diver0001]

Please Richard, if you choose to censor anything, let the posters know because almost all of what I see here is information which is simply contradictory to what the OP wanted to receive and is therefore being deemed too harsh. Has the presentation always been perfect in every post? Nope but that is the case in any thread here on ScubaBoard. I think it is important that the posters know what they did wrong when a MOD is "forced" to edit or delete their posts. Again, I have read every post (and likely now forgotten 50% of them) in the thread and do not believe any of them warrant much afterthought. I for one will always try to comply with the TOS but if those are a moving target and I am not told, then it is impossible to comply.

I usually call myself Rob or Robert but if you want to call me Richard I won't stop you I don't want to derail this thread by getting into the ins and out of how we moderate things but I'll send you a PM with a response to this.

R..

 

[Peter Guy]

[Moderate Hijack]

If your weighting is correct then you should be able to float neutrally boyant even with a gear problem!

Assuming I'm at the start of the dive, I should have at least 5 pounds of air on my back (generally more) -- How can I be neutrally buoyant if I MUST BE at least 5 pounds negative? Or do you want me to be 5 pounds positive at the end of my dive?

 

[Cave Diver]

[Moderate Hijack] Assuming I'm at the start of the dive, I should have at least 5 pounds of air on my back (generally more) -- How can I be neutrally buoyant if I MUST BE at least 5 pounds negative? Or do you want me to be 5 pounds positive at the end of my dive?

Don't start trying to use logic! It will just confuse people and piss them off!

 

[Walter]

Assuming I'm at the start of the dive, I should have at least 5 pounds of air on my back (generally more) -- How can I be neutrally buoyant if I MUST BE at least 5 pounds negative?

True, but if you're 5 lbs negative, you can easily swim up. Negative by 20-25 lbs it becomes more of an issue.

 

[fairybasslet]

I can tell you this. If my buddy was my teenage daughter, I would be gone to hook up with her.

Exactly right. That was exactly what I was thinking when I wrote my first post. The diver who came over to check on the OP's buddy might have had a fairly new buddy.

If I were diving with my teenaged son, he is my first responsibility. Of course, if the diver were in distress and I wouldn't endanger myself by helping him, of course I would help if he needed it. Stuff happens, but I know that during descents, my buddies and I are together. Sometimes we get separated during a dive, especially when my bud is a fellow photographer, but we do wait manage to find each other (most of the time. LOL)

 

[FredT]

Item ONE: The diver with the broken corrugated hose is WAY over weighted!!!

If you HAVE to put air in BC to keep you off the bottom you are doing it wrong! Diving with a single tank in warmish water he should have been no more than 8 pounds negative. 5 from the air in the tank he hadn't used yet, and maybe 3 from suit compression. ANY more than that is overkill. ANY "master diver" should be able to swim 10 pounds up from the bottom. In warm water BC's work best if empty at the end of dive, with the diver neutral at the start of his ascent.

Item TWO: OP failed in the pre-dive buddy gear inspection. A bad corrugated hose should have been noticed either during set-up or during the buddy check. THEY DON"T FAIL WITH NO WARNING! Aligatoring or surface checking would have been apparent.

Item THREE: OP has one good point. Leaving a diver with a gear malfunction, unless YOU are sure he can deal with it is poor form for ANY diver. Bodies are a lot easier to recover when still working, and you haven't had to spend a few days searching for them.

Given today's training intensity even a newly minted rescue diver may not have been drilled on equipment problem resolution in place. Back in the diving dark ages equipment problems were EXPECTED during a dive, and students were taught and DRILLED extensively on how to deal with them. Now with the improved gear reliability its barely mentioned and never drilled in open water OTOH mechanical things WILL insist on failing at the worst possible time, and electronics and seawater have never gotten along well.

 

[DandyDon]

Seeing as he dropped to the bottom, sounds to me like he was over weighted! If your weighting is correct then you should be able to float neutrally boyant even with a gear problem! It would have been safer for Lea to drop one weight at a time until he was able to comfortably swim to the surface thus avoiding a run away ascent which is also very dangerous!

[Moderate Hijack] Assuming I'm at the start of the dive, I should have at least 5 pounds of air on my back (generally more) -- How can I be neutrally buoyant if I MUST BE at least 5 pounds negative? Or do you want me to be 5 pounds positive at the end of my dive?

Yep. I think maybe 3# of air might be closer, but yes - we are taught to be neutrally buoyant at the end so we will be slightly negative at the start.

Personally, I like to be a couple pounds negative at the end to ensure I can get back down to dodge a jet ski or boat in a hurry, or in case I use my 500 psi reserve to extend my safety stop in a pinch, so I'll start 5# negative. Add a few pounds for my pony rig and I guess I am 7-8# negative at the start - but I can easily swim that up without inflating my BC.

Sounds like the Master Diver could use a Peak Buoyancy class. The one given in San Marcos TX to dive Spring Lake is outstanding. You train to do volunteer work with 10-20 ft bottom and glass bottom boats overhead, and you have to stay off of the bottom.