Jets and Turtles are two fins he is talking about. The vent holes are potential snag points in a current.
MD
Dives Where DIR fails?
- Thread starter Divesherpa
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
Jets and Turtles are two fins he is talking about. The vent holes are potential snag points in a current.
MD
Scubaroo
Contributor
Joel,
JetFins and Turtles are examples of vented fins - the vents or holes in the fin in front of the foot pocket. I believe Bob is referring to a stick or similar being lodged in this hole and ripping the fin off.
joel_pratt
Guest
Ahhhhh....I see what your are saying...
usil
Guest
Your kit isn't what saves you, you is what saves you.
I'll dive with a guy who is cool headed in the water and knows how to think down there but only has one reg and uses a only a drysuit for inflation over the guy kitted up to gods standards.
When **** hits the fan I don't care if you have every nut and bolt in the right place, if you can't use them then YOU arn't much good.
KIT IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT GET OVER IT
Experience is all that counts
I'll dive with a guy who is cool headed in the water and knows how to think down there but only has one reg and uses a only a drysuit for inflation over the guy kitted up to gods standards.
When **** hits the fan I don't care if you have every nut and bolt in the right place, if you can't use them then YOU arn't much good.
KIT IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT GET OVER IT
Experience is all that counts
100days-a-year
Contributor
Spearfishing with a buddy here is the easiest way to consistently enrich your local grocer.As we start getting deeper we get closer to DIR as it becomes an overhead environment.Still doing dives to 150'on EAN25.Dive long hose always when diving doubles as we're usually doing deco and meet as buddies at the anchor on the way up.All gear is clippable to allow for sleigh rides and comfortable ascents and hangs.Run a variety of profiles and mixes and you'll find that all Deco programs will occasionally have shorter hangs with "alternative" deco gasses.50 and 100% are the best standard,but not always the fastest out of the water.
OP
What are you saying here? I fail to understand where DIR comes into play with a 150' END.
Dryglove
Contributor
Its a combination of both that counts and not just one or the other.
djhall
Guest
I am not an expert on the subject by any means, but I do know that accepted best practices for public safety divers dictate an entirely different method of operation. PSDs typically work with long exposure times, hazardous situations, black water, tethers, and hazmat sealed full face masks/helmets. Putting a pair of divers in the water means you need twice as many divers to run your operations, you risk loosing two divers to a single catastrophic situation (hazardous materials exposure, shifting of a sunken vehicle, tree floating down the river which wipes out your dive team, etc), your divers may not be able to see each other at all in black water, they risk entangling themselves in each other's tethers, and their equipment does not easily allow air sharing. Therefore, PSDs typically dive individually while tethered by a line and a constant communication link to a tender. A backup PSD and tender are ready to dive at all times to aid the primary PSD in case he gets into trouble. In case of emergency, the bailout bottle helps the primary diver reach safety or survive until rescued by the backup diver (who follows the tether to find the endangered primary). In this kind of diving, dedicated topside voice communication is absolutely required. Unfortunately, many (most?) PSD teams do not have the funding to obtain proper training or equipment.
joel_pratt
Guest
I dont think anyone will argue that experience is extremely important...however, if you understand what DIR is then you know that equipment is about 20% of the whole picture. The techniques, skills, and philosophy are a HUGE part of DIR.
I was simply addressing Bobs concerns about particular pieces of gear and was not implying that gear was all there as to it.
Joel
Duncan Price
Contributor
...sorry I'm late!
I'll start off with some general observations about conditions in the UK before I mention "DIR" or its proponents and then return to the original question:
Cave diving in the UK is not a branch of technical diving, but more a form of technical caving. The hostile nature of British cave diving in poor visibility, cold water and restricted passages means that solo diving with side mounted cylinders is the norm. 100% redundancy of all equipment and strict attention to safety is essential. The nature of operations beyond sumps requires the cave diver to be proficient in all aspects of underground exploration: climbing, ropework, surveying, digging, photography and particularly first aid. The British cave diver tends to be motivated to discover new cave passage and is highly self-reliant.
The governing body and certifying agency in the UK is the Cave Diving Group which was founded in 1946 by cavers but probably represents the oldest "technical" diving agency in the world. The CDG has own training/examination system and produces a quarterly newsletter and occasional publications such as sump indices and training manuals. Members of the CDG may be called upon to assist in cave rescues, particularly those involving cavers trapped by flooding.
I have been informed that GUE, as an agency, not only respects this activity undertaken by the CDG but also >recognises< at its highest level that:
"[UK cave diving]... is a highly specialized activity and as such it requires special consideration... with long range dry pushes changing the picture with respect to equipment, management, and that this, and other sump-push properties, also require proper management. Caving is a rather brutal, unique activity with very special needs."
UK cave diving is Hogarthian in the extreme to the point that any unessary clutter is stripped away to the case of diving using a single sidemounted cylinder, no fins and no buddy where necessary.
Ask any British sump diver if there is a "Right" way to cave dive and they'll tell you that it is the one they use.
Easy access sites like those dived in Florida by divers using the "DIR" style rig represent a small minority of underwater caves. The majority of exploratory cave diving is carried out by divers not using this configuration.
It is very easy to be critical about equipment but often this criticism is framed out of context. It is self-evident that team diving with manifolded backmounts, stages on the left hip and breathing from the long hose is not a universal panacea for all types of diving. As a previous contributor intimated, experience, teamwork and determination are the common ingredients to success rather than which way you route your hoses. The question is not about equipment, it is about attitude, and DIR has plenty of that.
Duncan
I'll start off with some general observations about conditions in the UK before I mention "DIR" or its proponents and then return to the original question:
Cave diving in the UK is not a branch of technical diving, but more a form of technical caving. The hostile nature of British cave diving in poor visibility, cold water and restricted passages means that solo diving with side mounted cylinders is the norm. 100% redundancy of all equipment and strict attention to safety is essential. The nature of operations beyond sumps requires the cave diver to be proficient in all aspects of underground exploration: climbing, ropework, surveying, digging, photography and particularly first aid. The British cave diver tends to be motivated to discover new cave passage and is highly self-reliant.
The governing body and certifying agency in the UK is the Cave Diving Group which was founded in 1946 by cavers but probably represents the oldest "technical" diving agency in the world. The CDG has own training/examination system and produces a quarterly newsletter and occasional publications such as sump indices and training manuals. Members of the CDG may be called upon to assist in cave rescues, particularly those involving cavers trapped by flooding.
I have been informed that GUE, as an agency, not only respects this activity undertaken by the CDG but also >recognises< at its highest level that:
"[UK cave diving]... is a highly specialized activity and as such it requires special consideration... with long range dry pushes changing the picture with respect to equipment, management, and that this, and other sump-push properties, also require proper management. Caving is a rather brutal, unique activity with very special needs."
UK cave diving is Hogarthian in the extreme to the point that any unessary clutter is stripped away to the case of diving using a single sidemounted cylinder, no fins and no buddy where necessary.
Ask any British sump diver if there is a "Right" way to cave dive and they'll tell you that it is the one they use.
Easy access sites like those dived in Florida by divers using the "DIR" style rig represent a small minority of underwater caves. The majority of exploratory cave diving is carried out by divers not using this configuration.
It is very easy to be critical about equipment but often this criticism is framed out of context. It is self-evident that team diving with manifolded backmounts, stages on the left hip and breathing from the long hose is not a universal panacea for all types of diving. As a previous contributor intimated, experience, teamwork and determination are the common ingredients to success rather than which way you route your hoses. The question is not about equipment, it is about attitude, and DIR has plenty of that.
Duncan
Similar threads
