Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[The Chairman]

Doing skills and having the desire to do them well are hugely different.

Rly? I see people doing skills automatically all the time. Mask clearing, equalizing ears, staying neutral... divers hone almost all the skills they are taught on every dive. No CESA, no R&R BCD, but most of the skills are used every dive.

Thinking about this, there are many, many tasks that have been made easier over the years. All of my term papers and essays were written by hand back in high school (I graduated in '75). I believe I typed my final one and that took far, far longer. Now students have word processors on their PCs that check spelling and even grammar. Does that mean creative writing has been "watered down"? In Chemistry, we used slide rules to calculate molar volumes and whatnot. Does the use of a calculator make it watered down or are we 'overreacting'??? My 2017 Kia drives far, far nicer than my 1967 Cortina ever could. Has driving been dumbed down? No, but it's certainly been improved.

We are clever people. We do something and then figure out how we can do it better and/or more easily. My OW classes today are nothing like the ones when I first became an instructor. They are easier on the student, and yet I produce far, far better students than I did back then. My standards have not been watered down, but my classes have certainly evolved and I believe for the better.

 

[W W Meixner]

In my opinion...nothing beats a qualified instructor...having said that...there are instructors...and then there are instructors...
Not everyone's comprehension is the same...and it takes that knowledgeable instructor to identify whose getting it and who isn't...that doesn't happen with online instruction...BUT...
Current online instruction courses are not 100% digital...there is still a human factor...certified instructor involvement...and it's up to this instructor to ensure that all attending students are comprehending not just some elements of the course...but everything...
I traveled a considerable distance recently for an advanced morning charter and was invited to attend the afternoon ''open water'' charter...compliments of the house...if what I witnessed wasn't so serious it would have been laughable...tanks slung so low they were striking the divers legs behind the knee...hoses hopelessly tangled within the BCDs...inflator hoses not connected...thirty year old reg set that one young diver had bought online...that were free flowing on the boat...old/broken BCD's held together with zip-ties...miss-matched fins...each one a different size...
The captain and I split the group into two...with one group remaining on-board until the other group returned...picked the best gear and kitted out the groups so that everyone had a chance to get into the water...some diving with someone else's gear.
Is this problem course content...I don't think so...more like comprehension issues...and the proper identification of who should be granted Open Water Certification...and who needs further help before certification is granted...
Needless to say...I didn't get wet that afternoon...but the charter was a success...as each new diver got into the water...and more importantly...made it back to the boat...
Dive Safe...Warren

 

[Bob DBF]

In the Halcyon days through rose tinted glasses, the training was longer and more intense, there were less people involved in the sport but more annual deaths in total. So perhaps the training wasn't that effective?

You have to realize that a diver back then did not even have to have any formal training. In my case there was no one around to take a class from, Sears was selling dive equipment by mail, and the local compressed gas company would sell fills to anyone. Also, depending on the date the use of SPG's and BC's was minimal and there was no formal training for extended range, wreck, or cave and the only gas was air.



Bob

 

[TMHeimer]

Think baseball.

You may marvel about the skills of the 12-year old shortstop. He might be the greatest Little League player ever. Those skills would not get him on a Major League team

There is an expectation of the buoyancy skills of an OW diver. There are expectations of the buoyancy skills of a tech diver. They are not the same.

Can't disagree with that. Of course, you're comparing kids to adults here. Though I am one of the few who think 12 is way too young to be on scuba, it would be more appropriate to compare one 12 year old to another doing the same skill (or one adult to another)--and determine which one may have "mastered" the skill.
Recently shurite7 was quoted saying "....must demonstrate he/she can conduct the skill during the certification dives. After that, it is up to the student to go out and master the skill by diving more". I don't think I am alone in agreeing this is a common occurrence.
Herein lies the difference in what mastery may be according to Standards vs. what it may be in reality.

 

[scubadada]

Can't disagree with that. Of course, you're comparing kids to adults here. Though I am one of the few who think 12 is way too young to be on scuba, it would be more appropriate to compare one 12 year old to another doing the same skill (or one adult to another)--and determine which one may have "mastered" the skill.
Recently shurite7 was quoted saying "....must demonstrate he/she can conduct the skill during the certification dives. After that. it is up to the student to go out and master the skill by diving more".
Herein lies the difference in what mastery may be according to Standards vs. what it may be in reality.

Both my kids learned to dive at 12. Both were good swimmers, very comfortable in the water. Both did just fine in certification and were safe divers. Now, they are 33 and 28 years old and both are active, very good divers. Personally, I'm wondering if 10 is too young.

 

[The Chairman]

In my opinion...nothing beats a qualified instructor.

Indeed. I love e-learning, but it can't replace me.

You have to realize that a diver back then did not even have to have any formal training.

I certainly didn't. Somehow I survived.

Both my kids learned to dive at 12.

I started at 12 as well, but I won't teach anyone younger than 14. I think the BSA got it right.

 

[TMHeimer]

It is a requirement. I remember having the standards, for both NAUI and PADI, back when I took DM in 2000. The Instructor Manual comes in the crew pack. However, you, as a DM (assuming you are renewed), can go to PADI's website and download the pdf. The same holds true with NAUI. My active DMs are required to read (more like review) through it each year to help ensure we are holding to minimum standards.




This is the reason, at least one of them, for promoting continuing ed courses.

Well, I stand corrected as you say reading the instructor manual was a requirement as early as 2000. I'd like to look that up myself but it's too much hassle to try to find it somewhere on the PADI site or doing a google search to find the exact wording. Guess I could e mail or call PADI. I can tell you for sure that it was not part of the PADI DM Crew Pack when I took DM in 2009. Perhaps it was included when the DM course changed in 2010, but you said 2000. I vaguely recall that it was recommended that you buy a copy ahead of time in case you decided to go for instructor. If it was a requirement to read the Instr. manual back then, I guess my instructor was in violation of Standards as she did not tell us to.
What exactly does the standards say--simply that you must read it?

 

[TMHeimer]

Both my kids learned to dive at 12. Both were good swimmers, very comfortable in the water. Both did just fine in certification and were safe divers. Now, they are 33 and 28 years old and both are active, very good divers. Personally, I'm wondering if 10 is too young.

It's an old debate. Thinking of myself back then, I think 15 is about the right age for scuba--and that still depends on the mind development of each 15 year old. I THINK I would've been safe enough.
Yes, 12 year olds can and as you say, have dived safely over the years and lived to tell about it.
A parent and 12 year old can be in the same OW (Jr.OW) course together, get certified, and go way off in nowhere to dive together. A bit of a scary picture to me.
I just base my unpopular view on the perhaps 1,000plus 11/12 year olds I taught in Band. I wouldn't want to see the most mature of those on scuba. Everything's fine unless something happens and a mature 12 year old's mind can't cope. And perhaps fellow newbie buddy Dad dies.

 

[EastEndDiver]

I remember diving the a "J" valve...……….oh the memories.

 

[JamesBon92007]

I remember diving the a "J" valve...……….oh the memories.

In my class we were not allowed to use the J-valve and were told to put it in the Reserve position at the start of the dive. The thinking was that they sometimes would get pushed down during a dive and when you expected to have a reserve, there wasn't any.