Diver Training, Has It Really Been Watered Down???

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

We recently uploaded a video to our YouTube Channel (www.youtube.com/user/lakehickoryscuba), pondering the question, "Has Diver Training Really Been Watered Down?" And it has had a great response. I wanted too pose the question here as well, for all divers, not just instructors, mainly because there are divers on here who were trained way back when, then took a break from diving. After a lengthy period of time, they made the decision to retake their Open Water Scuba Certification, and this time around did an online digital course. And we would like to know what are some thoughts on the quality of material being produced by the training agencies (all agencies that produce online training), and are they up to par with the previous materials produced (mainly text books). Is the material produced in a manor that its easy to comprehend and retain the information taken in, or is it lacking the information that only an instructor can give face to face with a student. Just a few things to add before we start, diving is appealing to most because of the adventure and fun aspect of it. When training students at what point do we cross the line and take fun out of it just to make sure they understand the material. And why is it so difficult for instructors to give students credit for being educated enough to read the material on their own and retain the information they read (or watch with online training), without the need for lengthy classroom sections. Keeping my personal opinion out of it, thus why I am asking for your guys opinions, for anyone that is currently certified, and took an online digital course, but yet feels their course was not up to par with someone who did a more traditional course, with hours upon hours of classroom, I would like to offer you a free audited course with us. Start to finish, it cost you zero. Then we would like your honest opinion on whether doing an online course is just as thorough as a more traditional course. And GO.

 

[JamesBon92007]

2000? I don't know what the training was like in 1999 because I took my course in 1969. My personal experience is that the course I took (NAUI) was much more inclusive than what you get today with a OW course. We were taught how to "scuba dive" with the information that was available at the time. Since then there have been advancements in knowledge about re-breathers and gas mixtures etc plus now we have computers. If courses today were taught the way they were in '69 they would include all of that too, at least in a general sort of way. Back then you we were not taught about commercial diving (surface-supplied breathing gases etc) in a scuba course so I would still expect some aspects of diver training to be beyond the scope of a basic dive course. However, I do believe that a single, basic course should be more thorough, beyond just teaching someone how to dive to 60' without ending up with a pulmonary embolism. My girlfriend was recently PADI OW certified and I feel that the course was inadequate. Fortunately she had a real-life instructor that included much that was not required. I don't believe that she could have received the same level of instruction from an online course. When you go diving in the real world the dive ops seem to think that if you are OW certified you are a certified diver. They don't appear to have any regard for PADI's "recommended" depth limitations and so far I have not witnessed any differentiation between an OW diver and an AOW diver. My original card said "Scuba Diver" on it and my new, updated card says "Master Scuba Diver" and I have not noticed that I have been treated any differently because they added one more word to my certification level.

Does technology make someone a better diver? We were taught to rely on ourselves back in the old days and today people seem to be taught to rely more on their equipment. That's fine until you have equipment failure. The more stuff you have the more that can go wrong. In some cases specialized equipment is essential but I've seen divers who are probably not going to exceed 60 feet in clear, calm water look like they are equipped to go to the moon.

So where, exactly, is this free course that you want opinions about?

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

So where, exactly, is this free course that you want opinions about?

420 Taylorsville Beach Ct., Taylorsville, NC, 28681. Schedule will be set by you and the available instructor. Thank You for your response.

 

[boulderjohn]

I just want to warn people about the most common fallacy in these discussions. People describe what they had in their ONE class with their ONE instructor years ago and compare it with ONE class they saw with ONE instructor in the modern world. The fallacy is the assumption that what they experienced years ago represented ALL instruction then, and what they saw today represents ALL instruction today. I was certified in 2.5 days a couple of decades ago, and it was years before I understood how many standards were skipped to make that happen. In this history of NAUI, the authors recognize the uneven quality of early training because of the complete lack of quality control. Yes, some people back then got extensive courses, but some people also got certified without attending a class.

The way to make a true comparison is to look at agency standards from one era and compare them with the standards from another era. That happened only a couple weeks ago on ScubaBoard. Someone listed all the PADI OW requirements from 1995 so we could compare them to today. The only thing missing from current standards was one-regulator buddy breathing--the course did NOT teach require using an alternate air source. In contrast, the current PADI courses has at least 15 requirements that were not required then.

If you go to the actual course requirements, at least for PADI, the current courses require more training than the past courses did.

 

[JamesBon92007]

Someone listed all the PADI OW requirements from 1995 so we could compare them to today. The only thing missing from current standards was one-regulator buddy breathing--the course did NOT teach require using an alternate air source. In contrast, the current PADI courses has at least 15 requirements that were not required then.
If you go to the actual course requirements, at least for PADI, the current courses require more training than the past courses did.

Just curious: how many requirements are there in a current PADI AOW course that are not included in the OW course?

 

[Lake Hickory Scuba]

People describe what they had in their ONE class with their ONE instructor years ago and compare it with ONE class they saw with ONE instructor in the modern world. The fallacy is the assumption that what they experienced years ago represented ALL instruction then, and what they saw today represents ALL instruction today.

This is very true @boulderjohn and I took this into consideration before starting this post. Thus why I made the offer for the free audited Scuba Course (I considered it as a free Quality Control on myself for myself, being that I teach across multiple platforms, agencies, and consider myself an old school diver, but new age instructor). We thoroughly would like to be able to compare the two, but understand that not only are the agencies a variable, but that the individual instructors are a variable that will determined the outcome as well.

The way to make a true comparison is to look at agency standards from one era and compare them with the standards from another era.

This is a great starting point, but you know as well as I do, following standards is interpreted as such as the instructor who reads them. An example would be integrating standards together. Skill 1--- Remove and Replace Weights, Skill 2--- Remove and Replace Gear. Integrated Skill 1 and 2---Remove and Replace Weight Integrated BCD with weights in weight pockets. The student technically performed both skills at the same time. Something we were not allowed to do when I got certified, simply because we did not have weight integrated BCD's. So has the advancement in gear allowed for easier training, yet jeopardized the safety of the student.

Now with that being said, I would like to keep the topic specifically on the Academic portion of the course. Online Training, compared to traditional 1 on 1 training with the instructor, is it really watered down to the point that divers do not feel they are getting enough information to be able to dive safely. And is the instructor so vital that a student is incapable of reading or watching material online, and able to retain the information without the instructor face to face.

 

[boulderjohn]

Just curious: how many requirements are there in a current PADI AOW course that are not included in the OW course?

They are pretty much completely different. Some compass skills are repeated in the navigation dive, but that is all that comes to mind at the moment.

 

[TMHeimer]

I haven't seen any online courses personally. I will just add that when I was assisting with OW I didn't notice any difference (pool or ocean) in students who did e learning vs. traditional. It probably varies per student, and instructors I've talked with have differing opinions on which is better. I THINK e learning would have been best for me. Our shop didn't have it when I took OW in 2005--I didn't think it became more the norm until 2-3 years after that, but maybe that's just here. As far as content, from what I've heard the academic material is pretty much the same either way, as are the pool skills (except for the changes boulderjohn mentioned). The PADI DM course, of course, has less theory and more practical than the "old" course I took in '09.
I'm sure there will be some posts talking about comparing the course itself with the "real" old days-like '60s, 70s, etc. -- though that is not your question. I don't think content itself has changed all that much in the PADI OW course in my time (2005-present).
I would like to take your free course, but NC is a bit far.....

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

There are two sides to it. When I did my Open Water course in 2003, there were no youtube videos to show me what would be expected of me in the water. Instructor doing a live demo was the only time I saw what I am required to do. Some agencies, UTD in particular have done a great job in integrating video instruction along with written instruction in their online course so when I did my UTD Essentials, even before I jumped in the water I knew what I would be expected to do and how to do it. So yes in that regards, my time in the water was more productive though I would not use this as an excuse to reduce pool hours.

Then there is damage that has been done that may be hard to justify because of advanced in technology. I believe SDI was the first agency that removed the chapter on dive tables from their text books because they were "training divers on computers from day one." The same agency introduced "computer nitrox" course. This whole course was lacking in nitrox calculations and trained Open water divers to press oxygen percentage into their computers.

Amazing advances in technology right? I wonder why diver training in commercial diving schools and military diving was not effected by the arrival of dive computer the way recreational training was. Anyone who trains to dive in a professional environment still knows what a dive table looks like.

I know a lot of people who failed a commercial diving program and I also know that military diving also has a high failure rate. Why is it that every customer who walks into a divestore always walks out "certified?" In the end recreational diving industry is driven towards creating customers of diving gear rather than creating divers. When training and retail happens under one roof then creation of a diver will not be the prime objective but a consequence.

 

[scubadada]

I was certified as a basic scuba diver by the LA County Underwater Unit in 1970, I was recertified with my son by PADI in 1997, this was a traditional course with classroom, not a new online course. The LA County course took much longer, classroom and pool. It had 5 dives, 3 off the beach in LA and 2 off a boat off Catalina. Once certified, I was competent to dive locally under usual conditions. I dived independently, mostly from shore in LA, Orange, and San Diego Counties with occasional trips to Catalina. The PADI course was quite good with a good instructor. It was quicker than the previous course with less pool time. It had 4 OW dives done in the warm, clear, waters of Grand Cayman. At the end of the course, my son was qualified to dive the conditions present on Grand Cayman, nothing more, nothing less. We have successfully increased my son's area of competence since that time by experience.