Diver lost in cave in Florida/Homossassa...

[Randy43068]

I am well aware of the purpose of this forum. Please note I asked whether this is the correct THREAD rather than forum to discuss you getting narc'ed and scared. It helps discussions follow more logically if people try to keep one topic per thread rather than mixing in different scenarios and outcomes.

This was about James Cummins getting lost in a cave rather than you getting narc'ed and DIR curious.

changing topics is the nature of conversation wouldn't you agree?

 

[Geoff_H]

changing topics is the nature of conversation wouldn't you agree?

There is a specific forum which dicussions which sounds like an appropriate place for near misses like UnderSeaBumbleBee's

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/

Near Misses and Lessons Learned

Here is a forum to discuss those incidents that ended well but could easily have ended badly, and the lessons learned from them.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

[MONTYPYTHONVOICEON]

"Let's not argue and bicker over who shot who..."

[/MONTYPYTHONVOICE]


This was not a near miss.

It is not inappropriate to discuss specific environmental parameters, decisions, or other circumstances which led to the outcome, so long as such discussions are respectful, on topic, and relevant to the dialog.

Dung-flinging and ad hockery, however, will be nuked.

Thanks.

 

[TSandM]

This just reminds me of other sad stories, like the three men who died on the Spiegel Grove, or Steve Donathan's death. I simply don't understand at all how deeply experienced divers, and instructors, can so completely lose respect for the dangers of overhead environments that they disregard one of the most basic principles: ALWAYS have a continuous guideline to open water.

I guess there are several lessons here. One is that no amount of experience may be enough when you are in zero viz in a complex overhead environment without a line. Another is that complacency sneaks up on us, and it's important never to lose sight of the fact that nobody can breathe water. A third is that cave training classes exist for a REASON; caves are not open water, and require specific techniques and training to be negotiated safely. A fourth lesson was learned by the poor students, which is the same lesson a young man learned here in Seattle at the cost of his life last year: Just because the person you are following is an instructor, doesn't mean that what he is doing, or having you do, is wise or even safe.

What a tragedy. It just hurts to read these stories.

 

[Geoff_H]

I wonder what can possess an instructor, diving with students to suddenly decide to abandon them and pursue a spot of solo cave diving.

The behaviour is so irrational I would suspect narcosis could be a factor. Certainly as the body was found at 90 feet it is possible although I most instructors routinely dive to 90 feet and deeper. It is well known that the narcotic effect varies from day to day and even dive to dive - possibly this was just a bad day.

If narcosis was not involved then it seems like just incredibly bad planning, as TSandM said maybe brought on by over confidence and complacency.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

as usual it's a lot of speculation based on newspapers, TDS, SB and people who have never even dove in the area

It's unfortuate to lose another diver. My condolences are with the family. Once the complete report comes out, then that will be the time to really discuss the accident.

My prayers are with the family.
Carolyn:sharks:

You're making an assumption that they were not involved in a cave class. You may be correct, but I think you should give the benefit of doubt.

What happened and what did you learn that saved your life?

I was wondering that as well.

Here is why threads like this are the right place to discuss such things. We can and do learn from the mistakes of others if we will take time to do so. Threads like these are the place for wild speculation as we rarely ever get a full report. We take the info we have and try to learn something from it.

I stated that this was not the place to give this guy the benefit of the doubt. It is the place to learn from his mistakes and that I felt that reading the forum and doing just that had personal value for me and had probably saved my life. Then two people asked what it was that I had learned, so I then posted.

There are any number of threads that had Mr Cummings wanted to learn from that he could have done just that and probably still be with us today. Like the thread about the really really experienced divers who died on the SG that didn't use a line and also dived beyond their skill level. Seems one chap on that dive almost died twice. He didn't learn from even his own experience.

It is sad that this guy died. It really is. There are a couple of similarities to my own dive. I went on a trust me dive that I had no business going on and I aborted the dive. These guys went on a trust me dive to a cave and at some point aborted the dive when he silted the place up.

This is a forum that we really can learn from by looking at the actions or inactions of others.

 

[all4scuba05]

Back to the story....

http://www.lcni4.com/cgi-bin/storyv...sLocal.2007101-5118-071-071011.Lead+NewsLocal

This is reposted from the local paper, the Citrus County Chronical:

By Cristy Loftis


While none of the men were certified cave divers, they entered a crack in the Gulf's floor, which leads into caves, Lane said.

At one point, Cummins instructed the divers to stop. Next, Cummins turned around, stirring up silt and making the water cloudy.

That was the last time they saw Cummins, Lane said.

The men waited about 25 minutes for him to reappear, then returned to the surface and reported the incident to authorities.

Sounds to me like they entered a crack not a cave. Cummins had them stop, then HE entered the cave silting his way in. After 20 minutes in the crack, the two divers ascended without Cummins

 

[eandiver]

Since my last post was pulled for some reason I will again state in a hopefully politically correct way that reports from US Coast Guard District 7 and Tampa news channel 10 that the diver in question was an OW instructor with two students doing their advanced AOW. For some unknown reason they were exploring a "crack" or cave in the sea floor 4 miles out. What they were doing there in the first place is one thing that seems to be totally out of place for an AOW class unless cavern/cave is now a part of AOW. Regardless of that the fact is two students surfaced and the instructor did not. The body as been recovered and no foul play is suspected. In accordance with the rules of this forum I cannot help but wonder what would be going thru the mind of any individual to put students(regardless whether they were already certified as AOW) in such jeopardy. I also wonder if they were in any way prepared or properly equipped to undertake an exploration of an environment on the sea floor that would, again from the reports, seem to call for at the least cavern or even full cave with all appropriate equipment and precautions? It's actions like this that could cast less than favorable light on the activity as well as instruction in this sport as well.

Sounds like a well written explanation that should satisfy the censors without causing undue fear or worry in the general diving group about this specific incident.

I liked the original one (that was deleted) much better though. It made a point. Quickly.

 

[eandiver]

For his family my heart goes out. The ones left behind have to endure the pain day to day while the people who died simply are gone. One should think about this before entering ANY cavern/cave at any level. I do. It helps keep my head screwed on during the dive.

 

[Couv]

RIP; Prayers for the family and friends.

... complacency sneaks up on us...

Lynn, I think the above is the crux of the matter. It might be a worthwhile investment for to buy a mask with a scrolling Head Up Display to say this continually during every dive.

couv