Diver Death

[String]

Please do not attach suspenders to your weight belts. :05:

-S

I make a point with my belt of ensuring my crotch strap of wing is OVER the belt, that way if the belt does slide or accidentally release it wont fall off me. If i need to get the belt off i undo the crotch strap first.

Ive heard of lots more incidents of people being injured when some weights or entire belts accidentally fell off than i have of incidents that could have been definately prevented by dumping a belt.

My view for my own safety and diving is i want my belt securely attached on me and requiring positive action by myself to get rid of it.

 

[Solitude Diver]

Ive heard of lots more incidents of people being injured when some weights or entire belts accidentally fell off than i have of incidents that could have been definately prevented by dumping a belt.

That's not what the agency's teach, and let's remember about the fellow at the bottom who couldn't/didn't remove his weight belt. It happens. I'd hate to see a newer diver, in trouble at the surface trying to figure out how to unclip his crotch strap so he can dump his weights to keep his head above water in a bad situation.My statement was specifically geared to newer divers who might not know any better, and go attaching things to secure their belts. Not a good thing to teach them. I no in rescue taining, it was always more difficult to assist a person at the surface, while trying to remove weights that were pinned with crotch straps. It is hard to remove while keeping their heads out of water.

No offense intended, just a difference of opinion.

Now that aside, I agree for some (particularly more experienced) divers, a secured weight system can be better, especially at depth and definately when deco diving. It is a trade off for the inability to rescue at surface, or dump on a runaway decent at say a 700 foot wall dive vs. and emergency ascent resulting in DCI. But that is a different forum.

-S

 

[MikeFerrara]

That's not what the agency's teach, and let's remember about the fellow at the bottom who couldn't/didn't remove his weight belt. It happens.

Being over weighted is the problem here. I just can't think of a situation underwater where dropping your weights is a good solution...especially if you aren't overweighted in the first place.

Actually the agencies do teach tricks like using two buckles to keep weight secure especially in courses like ice diving. Aside from that they don't teach much at all about weight systems or how they really should be used. I've recovered enough lost weight pouches and caught divers with one hand and their weights in the other working like a dog to reunite them (save them the trouble of a uncontrolled rapid ascent) to know that lost weights are far more common and a more real safety hazard than not being able to ditch them.

I'd hate to see a newer diver, in trouble at the surface trying to figure out how to unclip his crotch strap so he can dump his weights to keep his head above water in a bad situation.

Explain why he should be having trouble keeping his head above the surface with his weights on? Beyond that, no diver should dive in equipment that they don't know how to use. Being horizontal makes getting that weight belt off a snap, even if it's under a crotch strap.

A diver at the surface shouldn't hesitate to drop their weights if they feel the need but only if they are overweighted should they have trouble staying at the surface with their weights on. Even so, I wear my weight belt under my crotch strap but I do NOT need to undo the crotch strap in order to get my belt off.

Trying to do everything vertical is one of the first things that make things hard for divers and removing weights is no exception. I always taught divers to go face down and undo the buckle. That leaves the belt draped over the small of your back and you just roll out of it without having to fight the weight of the belt. Putting it on, is the same in reverse. The weight belt will slide right out from under the crotch strap. Of course if it did get hung up...you just unclip the crotch strap. If that's too hard for a diver they have other things to worry about.

My statement was specifically geared to newer divers who might not know any better, and go attaching things to secure their belts. Not a good thing to teach them. I no in rescue taining, it was always more difficult to assist a person at the surface, while trying to remove weights that were pinned with crotch straps. It is hard to remove while keeping their heads out of water.

No offense intended, just a difference of opinion.

I've been involved in rescue training with divers wearing all sorts of gear including side mount. Most of the DM's that worked with me, myself and many of my students used a Hogarthian configuration and the weight belt is under the crotch strap. Every one got along just fine.

Now that aside, I agree for some (particularly more experienced) divers, a secured weight system can be better, especially at depth and definately when deco diving. It is a trade off for the inability to rescue at surface, or dump on a runaway decent at say a 700 foot wall dive vs. and emergency ascent resulting in DCI. But that is a different forum.

-S

A secure weight system is better for every one, IMO. again, what's the cause of this runaway descent in the first place?

 

[SStrecker]

Removal of your weight belt, first, before getting back on the boat, is common practice in the Dominican Republic and Bermuda. Common sense is needed. It is best not to dive, if you don't have it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I disliked weight integrated for a few reasons including their inability to securely hold lots of weight but mainly is they massively complicate matters if you do have to dekit under water - let go of the BC and you're corking.

Even if you don't let go of the BCD, dekitting underwater with an integrated BCD is problematic. I've only done it in a pool ... while wearing a 3 mm wetsuit ... and it was difficult because the kit wants to stay on the bottom and your body wants to float up. You have to "wrestle" yourself back down to where you can put the thing on. I can only imagine what it would be like in a drysuit or 7 mm farmer john.

Yesterday I was helping out with a rescue class, and one guy was wearing a Zeagle Stiletto with 28 lbs of weight in the pockets. When he dekitted to assist with the rescue, the thing wouldn't float, even fully inflated. To my concern, this isn't a good situation. If you're going to purchase an integrated BCD, make sure you get one that'll support the amount of weight you need to put in it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DandyDon]

Removal of your weight belt, first, before getting back on the boat, is common practice in the Dominican Republic and Bermuda. Common sense is needed. It is best not to dive, if you don't have it.

Now, that's bad for business. You want the industry to lose all of those Vacation divers? :11:

Yesterday I was helping out with a rescue class, and one guy was wearing a Zeagle Stiletto with 28 lbs of weight in the pockets. When he dekitted to assist with the rescue, the thing wouldn't float, even fully inflated. To my concern, this isn't a good situation. If you're going to purchase an integrated BCD, make sure you get one that'll support the amount of weight you need to put in it.

Now that's odd? The Zeagle Site claims it has 35# of lift. I can't help but wonder why it wouldn't? The negative buoyancy of the tank is something to include, of course - would you know what he had, and what the neg is...?

 

[Rick Inman]

... I guess they could grab the big yellow loops on a DUI pouch.

BTW, you can tuck in those big yellow loops behind the front pockets and they are gone forever. With or without a crotch strap, dumping weights with the DUI weight system is as easy as opening up a pocket - and you can control the amount of weight you want to dump.

Maybe 2#s I can see. But if you dive with me, please don't dump all my weight unless I'm a recovery.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Now that's odd? The Zeagle Site claims it has 35# of lift. I can't help but wonder why it wouldn't? The negative buoyancy of the tank is something to include, of course - would you know what he had, and what the neg is...?

The tank was a Faber LP95 ...

The point of the post wasn't to knock a particular BCD, but rather to point out that when you choose an integrated weight BCD you need to consider the aspects of your rig that will be affected by it ... namely the amount of weight you're going to be using, as well as cylinder config. If you're adding a pony or argon setup, that also needs to be factored in.

A couple of folks remarked that the thing they didn't like about integrated BCDs is that they don't often hold enough weight ... as with most things related to scuba gear, that can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the application.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[dherbman]

Even if you don't let go of the BCD, dekitting underwater with an integrated BCD is problematic.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I practice this in a 7mm w/3mm hooded vest, but don the kit over my head, in the horizontal. THis method allow me to lay the kit in front of me, arms through straps or arms, with hands under the tank. In this position, I'm pretty much in control and could complete an entire dive this way.

I've tried the other way and over the head is just easier and cleaner. I'm at a loss as to why this is not taught.

 

[String]

That's not what the agency's teach, and let's remember about the fellow at the bottom who couldn't/didn't remove his weight belt. It happens. I'd hate to see a newer diver, in trouble at the surface trying to figure out how to unclip his crotch strap so he can dump his weights to keep his head above water in a bad situation.My statement was specifically geared to newer divers who might not know any better, and go attaching things to secure their belts. Not a good thing to teach them. I no in rescue taining, it was always more difficult to assist a person at the surface, while trying to remove weights that were pinned with crotch straps. It is hard to remove while keeping their heads out of water.

OK fair comment, i misunderstood what you said. For what its worth i dont teach (and am not allowed to teach) anything other than weight belt easy to jettison. I do however think that once qualified and experienced eventually the time comes for a diver to make up their own mind what they feel is the best/safest option for their diving. For dives involving a lot of depth and mandatory decompression my own view is its safer to have weight very securely attached than not. Obviously this isnt an issue for new divers or students who wont be in that situation.