Diver Death

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DiverBuoy:
Tragic story. As DandyDon said ... gotta love integrated weighting for many reasons.
Integrated weight systems, like every piece of scuba gear, have their drawbacks as well ... the major one being that they have a tendency to sometimes lose weights when you don't intend them to.

I currently have a couple of weight pouches in my box of "spare" gear that I found laying on the bottom ... and have reunited a few more with their rightful owners. Some newer designs recognize this tendency, and have implemented more fail-safe attachment methods ... but none are perfect. And dropping weight unintentionally will usually result in an uncontrolled ascent ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Scuba_Steve:
LOL Tongue in cheek man! A purposefully silly repsonse to an equally silly answer on how to "fix" this problem.

To spell it out a little more plain for ya, I agree with Mike F which is why in the same post I said I'd prefer to have somebody thinking doing the diving. This shouldn't be an issue, plain and simple. Just another dumb accident that we have nothing to learn from.

About nothing to learn. I have said for a long time How can some one be a open water diver not having done a boat dive. You can do a hundred shore dives where you usually come out of the water with ALL your equipment on. It is totally different when it comes to a boat dive, where the norm for a lot of people is to take there equipment off in the water and hand it up.


Weight belt V integrated I prefer weight belt even though I have a integrated bc. The weight pockets on the bc are used for survival equipment that is clipped off with a couple of feet of string to the inside of the pocket, so that I don't lose it should I drop it whilst deploying it.

It has been stated by a few members THINK but for some people its easier to throw $ at the problem.
 
That's my point. Lets throw more $$ and silly ideas at problems, when all you really need is better trained divers. Many of these accidents are basic problems which have a simple answer, even though we'll fill volumes disecting them looking for more.

Start thinking, would be a cheap fix.

What type of rocket scientist can't figure out that if you remove a flotation device you'll probably/possibly sink?, whether they've done a boat dive or not? Ever been in the deep end of a pool? Same thing happens to OW students there too. They learn this from day 1.
 
The scenarios I can think of for ditching weights at depth involve either accidental ditching, panic (yours, or someone elses') or contrived situations. There have been threads about people having their weight belts drop to their ankles or come all of the way off. If a paniced diver could knock out your reg or pull your mask, I guess they could grab the big yellow loops on a DUI pouch.

So, if you have a steel tank, you're carrying less weight to begin with and the consequences of dropping some of that weight at depth are less severe.

I heard of a case where a paniced diver dropped a pouch in a kelp entanglement but I think there is a thread on that.
 
Daylonious:
Unless you're wearing a pair of steel doubles of course... that's the only thing that worries me. If the wing fails at depth, it's going to be a serious problem humping those things to the surface. The emergency plan is to use the lift bag, but that's going to be haphazard at best...

D.

I'd think about twin AL80's
Then if doing a deep dive I'd concider taking a stage that I could ditch in an emergency.
 
es601:
As long as we are on the subject can anyone tell me why weight belts aren't being outlawed or why there isn't more of a campaign to make them a thing of the past? I realize that a weight integrated bc (or any bc) is a large investment but it seems to me that a lot of problems could be avoided by pushing weight integrated bc's. I mean this is not exactly a inexpensive sport that we are talking about and safety should take priority over thrift.

The same reason that diving without a cert. card is not outlawed. The dive community and industry prefers to regulate itself with standards instead of laws. When you consider the potentially high risks, it has done a pretty good job with the self “policing” and emphasis on research and safety.

dkktsunami:
Most of us, I think, would be unhappy with someone attempting to regulate how we dive or pressure us to outfit ourselves in any specific manner.

I Agree. And what about those of us who prefer Wing style BC so we don’t have any type of jacket wrapping around our mid-sections (other than some of our middle aged natural built in wrap around over enlarged stomach muscles) .

I personally use steel HP 130’s (single with pony or twin 130’s) due to long deep dives, and extended wreck penetrations. This with a 6 lb. steel back-plate makes me very top heavy. I use a weight and trim harness set up to lower my weights more than a standard belt would allow, to offset the top heaviness. I also dive dry most of the time which requires more weight. I couldn’t remove the belt before the BC if I tried (unless I was a woman who could remove bra from under shirt without taking off shirt. Still amazed at that one). :D If I remove gear in water, I have to be mentally prepared to release pockets if I start an uncontrolled decent..

Scuba_Steve:
That's my point. Lets throw more $$ and silly ideas at problems, when all you really need is better trained divers.

O2BBubbleFree:
Like in so many other situations, panic is the killer. If you keep your head, you can drop the weight belt on the way down and stop the elevator.

That is the bottom line. The person was (apparently) not well trained (if at all), had only been diving for a few months and had only a few dives in, and probably did not even have decent supervision from advanced divers. I personally couldn’t imagine watching a brand new diver getting out of gear at surface, and not guiding him on the proper procedures. The report says the person did remove gear and immediately sank. He either forgot (due to panic) or did not know how to release weights. Why the mother is suspicious about blood in ears and nose I’m not sure. That would be consistent with some sort of barotraumas caused by a fast decent. Gear wasn’t the problem here.

Panic and inexperience was the killer (assuming it was unintentional in which case there was probably still some panic). :wink:

The big question on my mind is….he obviously would have dropped straight down to bottom. Other divers would likely have been able to gear up fairly quickly and drop down to find him easily (unless there was a hell of a surface current-in which case they would have likely been on anchors anyway). Assuming there were better trained divers with him, someone should have even been in the water waiting for him. I have been in similar situations requiring in water gear removals, and always wait for the less experienced people to get out first. It was a straight shot down. Why did it take 26 hrs to find the body? Hmmmm! Sinister? There always seems to be a logical explanation once the facts come in, but I’d sure like to see these ones.
 
NWGratefulDiver:
Integrated weight systems, like every piece of scuba gear, have their drawbacks as well ... the major one being that they have a tendency to sometimes lose weights when you don't intend them to.

I currently have a couple of weight pouches in my box of "spare" gear that I found laying on the bottom ... and have reunited a few more with their rightful owners. Some newer designs recognize this tendency, and have implemented more fail-safe attachment methods ... but none are perfect. And dropping weight unintentionally will usually result in an uncontrolled ascent ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

No question the systems themselves are improving and even among those mfgd in the last 2 years their are some better (or more practical than others). In general the ones that relied purely on velcro to hold themselves in place were poorly designed, I have "caught" my own pouches on a few occasions moments before I would have lost them, but I have a nearly 5 year old rig.

Turning the tables around, I have recovered lost artifacts including 3 weight belts (and a couple of pouches). Interestingly, the pouches were found in relatively shallow water, around the reef and in surgy areas. Whereas all the weight belts have been found in water deeper than 70 feet. Unlike you, I have had no success in reuniting owners with their belongings, though I fear to think considering the environment of discovery what condition I might find their owners.

For now I'll be ignorant and assume that these critical gear items were merely dropped from the surface :) Now back to happier thoughts.
 
In my short time as a ow diver (6 months) I have already witnessed 1 found weight belt personally and a friend of mine found another at a different location (much deeper)but no pouches yet. In my pool classes I had problems with the weight belts sliding down or falling off altogether. This I'm sure was due to my waist being larger than my hips. I was at the lds to buy a harness/suspender for the weight belt and walked out with a integrated bc instead.I could definetily imagine that with exposure suits compressing at depth and not all divers being anatomicaly optimum, weight belts could be a droppin.
 
es601:
In my short time as a ow diver (6 months) I have already witnessed 1 found weight belt personally and a friend of mine found another at a different location (much deeper)but no pouches yet. In my pool classes I had problems with the weight belts sliding down or falling off altogether. This I'm sure was due to my waist being larger than my hips. I was at the lds to buy a harness/suspender for the weight belt and walked out with a integrated bc instead.I could definetily imagine that with exposure suits compressing at depth and not all divers being anatomicaly optimum, weight belts could be a droppin.

Absolutely. Good decision.


Just to make sure there are no misinterpretations about earlier posts and any new divers that may be reading, a weight and trim harness is NOT a suspender that attaches to a weight belt. That could be dangerous if you did need to dump. It is a specially designed set of weight "pockets" just like those on an integrated BCD. They are complete with emergency "pull" type handles in front which can allow the pockets to fall free from the harness if necessary.

Please do not attach suspenders to your weight belts. :05:

-S
 
BC removal underwater although not taught here officially any more is still a useful skill to have and is taught outside the syllabus by everyone i know. ITs very useful underwater to get out through a gap or if stuck, it also comes in handy if entangled.

On any sort of RIB dive on the surface you take your BC off and hand it up to the boat before climbing back onboard yourself. During this process obviously the weight belt is the FIRST thing to hand up before removing the BC.

I disliked weight integrated for a few reasons including their inability to securely hold lots of weight but mainly is they massively complicate matters if you do have to dekit under water - let go of the BC and you're corking.
 

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