Diver Death in Cayman

[Cave Diver]

Still not the right question. But to answer it: I'm at 100 feet, I see one of my divers at 200 feet slowly drifting down, 100 feet will take me less than 20 seconds, so I go get him and bring him back up. The minute or so of increased nitrogen will not mean much, the short time will not use much air, but that would bed my primary concern, but then the other divers in the group should (at ten minutes into the dive) have plenty.

Sorry, that's horse pucky: 10 minutes into a dive at 100 feet, warm clear water, with a single 80 I've got about 50 cubic feet left, more than enough for a drop to 200 for a minute and back up to 100 for a quick deep stop and then suck my tank down at 10. What's the big deal?

Have you done this type of dive often? Excluding the rescue part?

 

[Thalassamania]

Made a bounce to 190, on air, with a buddy, for a very limited task, with an 80 on my back?

Not that often, maybe 50 to 100 times in my life. Usually to recover or emplace an instrument or do a quick planning reconnoiter. In warm, clear water it's not a big deal. In cold, murky water it takes a bit more in the way of gear, planning and support.

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

What I've learned from this thread:

As an instructor for OW students - Just because I have an understanding of personal responsibility doesn't mean everyone else does. I have a responsibility to stress the importance of making your own dive plan. Although I had done this in the past, it is apparent that there is nothing wrong with promoting it even stronger.

As an instructor for DM candidates - I was once again reminded to instill in my DMC's that they should expect the worst in any situation and then either they will be pleasantly surprised or at the very least prepared. I often use real life stories from SB to get this point across and this situation will be included in my list.

As a DM leading a group - make it clear about what my role is and what my expectations of the group are. At this point in my dive career, I am unwilling to accept the same risks as what Thal has indicated he is willing to do - perhaps in the future but not at this time.

As a diver - diving can be hazardous sport and it is too easy to become compliant. Its never too late to learn more and to remind myself of the dangers.

Thank you to FosterBoxerMom for sharing her experience and for teaching/reminding all of us what our roles can and should be.

 

[bsee65]

Made a bounce to 190, on air, with a buddy, for a very limited task, with an 80 on my back?

Not that often, maybe 50 to 100 times in my life. Usually to recover or emplace an instrument or do a quick planning reconnoiter. In warm, clear water it's not a big deal. In cold, murky water it takes a bit more in the way of gear, planning and support.

You probably didn't want to come across as arrogant, but that's a dangerous statement. I'm sure what you meant was "For a diver of my experience and skill level, in warm, clear water it's not a big deal." For a sizable portion of the divers who might be reading your post, it's probably a fairly risky undertaking that is beyond experience, and should be beyond comfort level. It would be BS if we had to put a disclaimer on every post, but that seems like the kind of statement that could lead some intermediate diver to give it a try with potentially unhappy results.

 

[Thalassamania]

Sorry, you are correct.

It was not a big deal for me.

It was not a big deal for my buddy, who always had, beyond 100 hours of training: at least 12 dives above 30, 12 dives 30 to 60, 12 dives 60 to 100, 12 dives 100 to 130, 12 dives 130 to 150; and was usually was working toward his or her 190 foot card.

It should not be a big deal for a tropical instructor who's been there even just a few months.

 

[fosterboxermom]

After re-reading and doing a bit of speculation myself, I think these are very telling statements that were recently revealed.

This is my opinion based on everything that has been stated so far, feel free to disagree.




We now know from this post that the DM did give some sort of a dive plan. I think that it's at this point that the temptation for going deeper may have entered Brendans mind. It was mentioned that he already had a depth goal in mind and this presented an opportunity to go just a little bit deeper.



At this point, when the turn should have been made, Brendan may have either gotten distracted and failed to follow the group, then continued swimming straight thinking they went that way, or he may have conciously made the decision to drop over and go just a bit deeper. Narcosis or disorentation could have played a part in this. ESPECIALLY if he decided to try and do it without anyone noticing and swam hard, causing a build up of C02 and invoking a quicker, harder hit of narcosis, or a "dark narc."

Knowing how quickly the walls in Cayman drop off, its not out of the question for me to think he could have dropped over the side and quickly been out of line of sight for any of the other divers. Even looking over the side of the wall in the daytime, you're staring down into darkness and it can be hard to pick out a diver, or their bubbles that are more than 50' away from you.

It's during this point of the dive that I think the DM had his greatest failing. If I was leading a dive like this, I would have drifted out so that I was further over the wall than the rest of the group and indicated the direction they should continue in. Only once I was assured that all the divers had made the turn correctly and were heading in the right direction would I move back into position to continue leading the dive, checking back frequently to make sure everyone was staying within depth limits.

Once again, this is my speculation of where and how things may have gone wrong based on the newest information.

And I totally agree with you about the DM's biggest failing. I have been on so many dives and that is exactly how other DM's guide their dives. They drift out and hover until all their divers have made the turn, gone through an opening, etc. Just for safety precautions. However, I have learned all DM's are not the same. Lesson Learned!

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

bsee65: I don't read Thal's statement the same way as you did. I do not see any arrogance or a recommendation for others to do that. I saw it as merely a statement of fact... and even with my very limited (compared to Thal) experience, I do agree that had the DM seen the victim at 200', the DM could have made a fast bounce to go get him.

And yes, I've made a couple planned "bounces" that deep when diving as a safety diver in the 70's, with only a steel 72' on my back in support of divers who were deeper. So yes, I do know it can be done.

Best wishes.

 

[bsee65]

bsee65: I don't read Thal's statement the same way as you did. I do not see any arrogance or a recommendation for others to do that. I saw it as merely a statement of fact... and even with my very limited (compared to Thal) experience, I do agree that had the DM seen the victim at 200', the DM could have made a fast bounce to go get him.

And yes, I've made a couple planned "bounces" that deep when diving as a safety diver in the 70's, with only a steel 72' on my back in support of divers who were deeper. So yes, I do know it can be done.

Best wishes.

You don't read my statement particularly accurately. What I was saying was that someone might have accused Thal of arrogance had the original statement been "I have so much experience and skill that a bounce to 190' is no big deal to me". To simply say that a bounce to 190' is no big deal, though, could lead some lesser diver to misinterpret the statement and give it a try with inadequate preparation. It certainly wasn't a recommendation that others should go out and try it, but neither did it come with any guidance that this sort of dive wasn't something that someone with a few dozen dives and an AOW card shouldn't be thinking about. Divers like that are th eones who, IMO, are at the biggest risk. They have a new cert level that says they can do something that seems more reasonable than it actually is in practice.

Sort of brings us right back on topic with an OW diver heading for 100' and not coming back.

 

[LavaSurfer]

OK, Sorry I don't know how to do the "multi quotes.

When I said Matthew did the Dive Plan he told us what the site was called, (Round Rock) he told us the depth and what the site looked like. How long the dive would be (20mins on a computer which he tried to give his computer to Pam my dive buddy which left him with none). Then he told a joke about two eggs in a frying pan, (no one laughed, he danced a little jig (something that looked like a leprechaun would do) that's when I thought to myself "Is this guy high'? And that was the end of the dive plan. Pam spoke up about being a New diver and Brendan being New and she did not want to go to a 100 ft. and I voiced that I DON'T dive to 100 ft. He ignored us. He tried to put his computer on Pam, she is saying "I don't need this. He kept doing it. I was saying she doesn't need it she is going to be with me. (I thought it was an extra computer) I didn't know it was his. We kept telling him we weren't going to a 100ft we were going to hover above them. He said how are you going to do that without a computer? I said I have a depth gauge and a watch I can look at. He seemed confused. (Yes, I know at this point we should never have gone diving with him but hind site is 20/20)

Thanks for the reply. There is much more information here than I remember seeing earlier and I admit, I did not read every single post. It is tedious and repetitive reading at times. The highlighted areas really bother me. As for diving that dive without a computer on a wall, no big deal if your diving tables but it doesn't sound like that was the plan nor was it planned out amongst you as a group.

I remember once in Belize diving with an outfit on my 10th dive. I was told to follow the DM and he said he was diving the tables. I had a computer. I was new and stupid and 3 of us had our computers go into deco. They cleared before the dive was over and the DM waved us off when we shown him the computers. He said later that it happens all the time and that he was being safe. What is sad is all three of us KNEW BETTER yet we followed like sheep thinking he knew better. Later that night my friends and I talked the incident over and vowed that we would never place ourselves in someone else's hands. That point being is it is easy to fall into the trap that the leader actually knows what he/she is doing.

My apologies if I sounded like I was putting you out as not listening, My error. I have been on boats where the DM/Inst was almost over doing the briefing and we on the boat already knew the plan we were diving and just had to put up with the DM's act so that we could dive our plan.

Like I said this doesn't sound like Matthew and It surprises me. I know through the grapevine that he is devastated but then so are your friends and yourself. This event is tragic from every angle. It is a loss loss.

If I take anything away it will be that I am even more aware of newbie's. I take them to the quarry and work on platforms. I have to watch them like a hawk as it takes nothing to lose them and if they slip off the platform and lose buoyancy they can disappear in a split second and it is very cold and dark at the bottom. Likewise they can disappear in an instant in open clear and warm water something I feel I subconsciously I may have given less weight to as a threat. This event has brought that more into the forefront of my mind.

Another key take away is that instructors can emphasize, even more, the dangers involved in this "Safe" sport. Using examples like this may be a way to impress upon new divers that they are at the mercy of their best judgments and if they fail to take upon themselves the possibility that no one is watching out for them, they may pay the ultimate price and that it is OK to speak up and tell the "professional" they are not OK doing a dive.

 

[Thalassamania]

I understood it the way you said it, so no worries. I am amused, however, that you are so responsible as to call me to task for what my words on the internet might influence an impressionable new diver to do, while there are any number of folks here who do not seem to feel the same way about the DM who actually took a new diver out on a dive that was predictably well beyond his capabilities.

Thanks for the reply. There is much more information here than I remember seeing earlier and I admit, I did not read every single post. It is tedious and repetitive reading at times. The highlighted areas really bother me. As for diving that dive without a computer on a wall, no big deal if your diving tables but it doesn't sound like that was the plan nor was it planned out amongst you as a group.

I remember once in Belize diving with an outfit on my 10th dive. I was told to follow the DM and he said he was diving the tables. I had a computer. I was new and stupid and 3 of us had our computers go into deco. They cleared before the dive was over and the DM waved us off when we shown him the computers. He said later that it happens all the time and that he was being safe. What is sad is all three of us KNEW BETTER yet we followed like sheep thinking he knew better. Later that night my friends and I talked the incident over and vowed that we would never place ourselves in someone else's hands. That point being is it is easy to fall into the trap that the leader actually knows what he/she is doing.

You have the right to control your dive however you wish and with what ever level of conservatism you feel is required. But ... (there's always a but) ... the DM was right. He's made that same dive hundreds of times, he has it down to the second, he's seen many computers go in and out of Deco status on the dive. A friend of mine who used to take a lot of divers out on a tour of the Thunderbolt used to have the same thing happen, and he'd say and do the same thing.