Diver Death in Cayman

[pilot fish]

thal, here's my question, and concern: you see him at 200 ft, while you are at 100 ft, but he's still dropping, which makes your rescue, if you can overtake him, which I doubt because as a new diver he is over-weighted [ and dropping faster ], at a much deeper depth. You would consider that before you headed down to him, right? What shape is this diver in once you get there? Will he fight you, dislodge your reg etc. Also, if he's at 200 ft, one hundred feet below you, can you actually see him? This all sounds scary.:depressed:

Sorry, you are correct.

It was not a big deal for me.

It was not a big deal for my buddy, who always had, beyond 100 hours of training: at least 12 dives above 30, 12 dives 30 to 60, 12 dives 60 to 100, 12 dives 100 to 130, 12 dives 130 to 150; and was usually was working toward his or her 190 foot card.

It should not be a big deal for a tropical instructor who's been there even just a few months.

 

[Cave Diver]

Also, if he's at 200 ft, one hundred feet below you, can you actually see him?

Yes..

 

[Thalassamania]

thal, here's my question, and concern: you see him at 200 ft, while you are at 100 ft, but he's still dropping, which makes your rescue, if you can overtake him, which I doubt because as a new diver he is over-weighted, at a much deeper depth. You would consider that before you headed down to him, right? What shape is this diver in once you get there? Will he fight you, dislodge your reg etc. Also, if he's at 200 ft, one hundred feet below you, can you actually see him? This all sounds scary.:depressed:

If he were dropping in open water I'd give up the chase at 250. Not that 250 has some magic to it, it's just that I've thought about this in the past, and made a decision, just like the decisions that I've made concerning the use of resuscitation masks and dealing with blood without gloves, none of those are decisions that you want to make in the heat of the moment.

If there is any slope at all, he's likely bouncing off it and not descending too quickly. I would expect that if I was able to get to him, he'd either be convulsing, unconscious, or very narked, fairly easy to deal with in any case, grab his tank valve in my right hand and my power inflator in my left, establish positive buoyancy ... we are going up, set up an air siphon to control the ascent, just as we teach it, ascess on the way up and decide about stops and other divers' gas supplies.

In most wall diving situations that I've seen you'd be able to see him, and his bubbles.

Fear comes from the unknown, thinking it thorough is the first step toward dispelling fear, training is the next step and practicing regularly produces the firm third leg of the tripod, otherwise all you've got is the classic Manchurian Fire Drill: "when in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."

"Be Prepared" (or more to the point, 'cause I was never a Boy Scout) "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur.

 

[fosterboxermom]

Thanks for the reply. There is much more information here than I remember seeing earlier and I admit, I did not read every single post. It is tedious and repetitive reading at times. The highlighted areas really bother me. As for diving that dive without a computer on a wall, no big deal if your diving tables but it doesn't sound like that was the plan nor was it planned out amongst you as a group.

I remember once in Belize diving with an outfit on my 10th dive. I was told to follow the DM and he said he was diving the tables. I had a computer. I was new and stupid and 3 of us had our computers go into deco. They cleared before the dive was over and the DM waved us off when we shown him the computers. He said later that it happens all the time and that he was being safe. What is sad is all three of us KNEW BETTER yet we followed like sheep thinking he knew better. Later that night my friends and I talked the incident over and vowed that we would never place ourselves in someone else's hands. That point being is it is easy to fall into the trap that the leader actually knows what he/she is doing.

My apologies if I sounded like I was putting you out as not listening, My error. I have been on boats where the DM/Inst was almost over doing the briefing and we on the boat already knew the plan we were diving and just had to put up with the DM's act so that we could dive our plan.

Like I said this doesn't sound like Matthew and It surprises me. I know through the grapevine that he is devastated but then so are your friends and yourself. This event is tragic from every angle. It is a loss loss.

If I take anything away it will be that I am even more aware of newbie's. I take them to the quarry and work on platforms. I have to watch them like a hawk as it takes nothing to lose them and if they slip off the platform and lose buoyancy they can disappear in a split second and it is very cold and dark at the bottom. Likewise they can disappear in an instant in open clear and warm water something I feel I subconsciously I may have given less weight to as a threat. This event has brought that more into the forefront of my mind.

Another key take away is that instructors can emphasize, even more, the dangers involved in this "Safe" sport. Using examples like this may be a way to impress upon new divers that they are at the mercy of their best judgments and if they fail to take upon themselves the possibility that no one is watching out for them, they may pay the ultimate price and that it is OK to speak up and tell the "professional" they are not OK doing a dive.

Thank you for your insight on how you view this. I am sorry about the highlighted area and I don't know how that happens, I didn't do it.

This is what I am looking for. Not to be criticized but to learn. If you read my post about what I said about Matthew feelings I understand he has to be hurt as well. The one thing that does bother me is why this dive op didn't have another person on board when it is Cayman law? I have since heard other dive shops seem to obey this law but not Diver's Down. I think Matthew had so many responsibilities that day he couldn't preform them all at a professional level. Such as when our gear was put on the boat before I could even get settled he already had most of our gear on tanks. He also was the Captain of the boat. He had to Navigate,pick a dive site, anchor, tie up to a buoy, give a dive plan, brief us (which is where the communication broke down. Plus he was trying to put all our gear on our tanks, which I like to do myself. One person cannot do all of that at least I don't think so as well as keep track of 7 divers (all with different diving experiences) which two of were at a different depth. None of us including Matthew could predicted this was going to happen.

 

[pilot fish]

Way over my head and skill level. No thanks. What does all that mean, highlighted text below?

If he were dropping in open water I'd give up the chase at 250. Not that 250 has some magic to it, it's just that I've thought about this in the past, and made a decision, just like the decisions that I've made concerning the use of resuscitation masks and dealing with blood without gloves, none of those are decisions that you want to make in the heat of the moment.

If there is any slope at all, he's likely bouncing off it and not descending too quickly. I would expect that if I was able to get to him, he'd either be convulsing, unconscious, or very narked, fairly easy to deal with in any case, grab his tank valve in my right hand and my power inflator in my left, establish positive buoyancy ... we are going up, set up an air siphon to control the ascent, just as we teach it, ascess on the way up and decide about stops and other divers' gas supplies.

In most wall diving situations that I've seen you'd be able to see him, and his bubbles.

Fear comes from the unknown, thinking it thorough is the first step toward dispelling fear, training is the next step and practicing regularly produces the firm third leg of the tripod, otherwise all you've got is the classic Manchurian Fire Drill: "when in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."

"Be Prepared" (or more to the point, 'cause I was never a Boy Scout) "Chance favors the prepared mind." - Louis Pasteur.

 

[pilot fish]

fosterboxermom, how do we know his air was even on? Did anyone see him at all for any length of time to observe if he was breathing through his reg?

 

[fosterboxermom]

Thanks for the reply. There is much more information here than I remember seeing earlier and I admit, I did not read every single post. It is tedious and repetitive reading at times. The highlighted areas really bother me. As for diving that dive without a computer on a wall, no big deal if your diving tables but it doesn't sound like that was the plan nor was it planned out amongst you as a group.

I remember once in Belize diving with an outfit on my 10th dive. I was told to follow the DM and he said he was diving the tables. I had a computer. I was new and stupid and 3 of us had our computers go into deco. They cleared before the dive was over and the DM waved us off when we shown him the computers. He said later that it happens all the time and that he was being safe. What is sad is all three of us KNEW BETTER yet we followed like sheep thinking he knew better. Later that night my friends and I talked the incident over and vowed that we would never place ourselves in someone else's hands. That point being is it is easy to fall into the trap that the leader actually knows what he/she is doing.

My apologies if I sounded like I was putting you out as not listening, My error. I have been on boats where the DM/Inst was almost over doing the briefing and we on the boat already knew the plan we were diving and just had to put up with the DM's act so that we could dive our plan.

Like I said this doesn't sound like Matthew and It surprises me. I know through the grapevine that he is devastated but then so are your friends and yourself. This event is tragic from every angle. It is a loss loss.

If I take anything away it will be that I am even more aware of newbie's. I take them to the quarry and work on platforms. I have to watch them like a hawk as it takes nothing to lose them and if they slip off the platform and lose buoyancy they can disappear in a split second and it is very cold and dark at the bottom. Likewise they can disappear in an instant in open clear and warm water something I feel I subconsciously I may have given less weight to as a threat. This event has brought that more into the forefront of my mind.

Another key take away is that instructors can emphasize, even more, the dangers involved in this "Safe" sport. Using examples like this may be a way to impress upon new divers that they are at the mercy of their best judgments and if they fail to take upon themselves the possibility that no one is watching out for them, they may pay the ultimate price and that it is OK to speak up and tell the "professional" they are not OK doing a dive.

fosterboxermom, how do we know his air was even on? Did anyone see him at all for any length of time to observe if he was breathing through his reg?

Yes, We all went down together and did our OK signs to each other. Also we saw him with the group initially. Then I got focused on Pam's skills, but I kept an eye on the "whole" group so I knew which way they were heading to make sure we didn't get lost. And his tank was empty when he was discovered.

 

[Thalassamania]

Way over my head and skill level. No thanks...

An Air Siphon is a great tool to have in your bag of tricks:

Slightly over inflate your vest or wing and assume a heads up ascent position. As you start to move up, hold the inflator hose as far down (deep) as you are able and hold the oral inflation button open.

Bring the hose up (shallower) till air starts to flow out of the mouthpiece, then lower it (deeper) till it just stops. You now have an air siphon from your vest or wing that you can use to control your ascent rate with amazing precision.

The only problem is that the direction is counter-intuitive, raise the mouthpiece up to slow your ascent and lower it down to speed it up.

Remember to keep the oral inflation button OPEN ALL THE TIME.

Remember that the shallower you are the "touchier" the control is.

 

[vondo]

An Air Siphon is a great tool to have in your bag of tricks:

Learned another thing from this thread. Thanks! Will have to try that out at some point.

 

[fosterboxermom]

An Air Siphon is a great tool to have in your bag of tricks:

Slightly over inflate your vest or wing and assume a heads up ascent position. As you start to move up, hold the inflator hose as far down (deep) as you are able and hold the oral inflation button open.

Bring the hose up (shallower) till air starts to flow out of the mouthpiece, then lower it (deeper) till it just stops. You now have an air siphon from your vest or wing that you can use to control your ascent rate with amazing precision.

The only problem is that the direction is counter-intuitive, raise the mouthpiece up to slow your ascent and lower it down to speed it up.

Remember to keep the oral inflation button OPEN ALL THE TIME.

Remember that the shallower you are the "touchier" the control is.

Awesome!! Thanks Thal!!