Diver Death in Cayman

[fosterboxermom]

I don't have a plant so please don't think I would do something like that. I have been very open, honest, truthful and and factual to the best of my ability with what happened. I am still working through the pain as is my friend. I want something good to come of this. I am trying to help everyone understand something that has been a completely horrific tragedy and turn it into something that will be positive for everyone. So if there is a plant here it is not on my behalf.

 

[vondo]

I had plenty of air in my tank as we all started with 3200 psi. I had at least 2000 psi left. He could have taken my tank and reg. Pam and I could and shared and gone to the surface very safely. The rest could have gone to the surface with a safety stop. There were seven of us. We could have saved Brendan IF we had someone with the knowledge of how to do it and what to do in that kind of emergency. And we all had plenty of air at that point. The fact is Brendan was lost at that point and we LEFT him. DO YOU GET THAT WE LEFT HIM!!! No one bothered to even to a swim around and see if just maybe he went down a little further than he should have and was savable.

You keep saying this, but I don't think these suggestions of swapping tanks are particularly helpful. First, the DM probably had more air than you. Second, removing your tank and regs from your BC and then having you share with Pam would have taken time and put the two of you in a less than optimal situation potentially causing another accident, especially with a brand new diver. Not a smart thing to do, IMO.

Yes, the DM should have looked around when he saw Brendan was missing and if he was found and was shallow enough, the DM should have attempted to bring him back into the group or to the surface. But what you present was not really an option.

 

[Cave Diver]

I even saw the group when they were stopped and a video of the stopping. It shows Matthew, the woman from San Diego following Matthew, Her Husband taping behind his wife, the minor is not even in the video.

There is a video of this dive?

 

[Blackwood]

I really tried to stay out of discussing this tragedy, but I can't.

I had plenty of air in my tank as we all started with 3200 psi. I had at least 2000 psi left. He could have taken my tank and reg. Pam and I could and shared and gone to the surface very safely.

I don't think that taking an experienced diver's (your) tank and reg and forcing an inexperienced diver (Pam) to share air on an ascent with a non-professional is necessarily the best thing to do. As was said about 70+ pages ago, the first goal in a rescue is to not make two victims, and even that refers to the rescuer becoming a victim, not some third party.

I doubt that would be considered 'safe protocol' by most any DM trainer.

Besides, as you pointed out above, "WE" left him and "NO ONE" went to look for him. If you had plenty of air and thought that the appropriate action was to initiate a search for a lost diver at an unknown depth, why didn't you hand Pam off to Matthew and descend yourself?

But to sum it up there were 2 groups 1 set of buddies Pam and I and no buddies in the second group of 5 with Matthew.

That's still very confusing. I'm not surprised that a DM with such a splintered group would lose track of someone.



This is all very tragic and unfortunate. If it were me, I'd try to put it past me. Laying the blame on someone won't bring your friend back, nor will it (likely) affect the dive industry in a positive way.

 

[Cave Diver]

I had plenty of air in my tank as we all started with 3200 psi. I had at least 2000 psi left. He could have taken my tank and reg. Pam and I could and shared and gone to the surface very safely. The rest could have gone to the surface with a safety stop. There were seven of us. We could have saved Brendan IF we had someone with the knowledge of how to do it and what to do in that kind of emergency. And we all had plenty of air at that point. The fact is Brendan was lost at that point and we LEFT him. DO YOU GET THAT WE LEFT HIM!!! No one bothered to even to a swim around and see if just maybe he went down a little further than he should have and was savable.

I understand your feelings and frustration at this situation and that you feel something was left undone. However, I think you're beating yourself up needlessly on "what if" scenarios.

If there was some definite indication of where Brendan was, or where he'd gone things may have turned out differently. At the time he was discovered to be missing, there doesnt seem to be a clear indication on whether he might have surfaced, or gone over the wall and ended up deeper. Based on the information given, there was no way you could know where to look, or that he was in a critical need of gas.

You also didnt know at the time that you left him, because as far as anyone knew he could have been on the surface, since no one saw where he'd gone.

 

[fosterboxermom]

You keep saying this, but I don't think these suggestions of swapping tanks are particularly helpful. First, the DM probably had more air than you. Second, removing your tank and regs from your BC and then having you share with Pam would have taken time and put the two of you in a less than optimal situation potentially causing another accident, especially with a brand new diver. Not a smart thing to do, IMO.

Yes, the DM should have looked around when he saw Brendan was missing and if he was found and was shallow enough, the DM should have attempted to bring him back into the group or to the surface. But what you present was not really an option.

Sorry it was something I was just thinking about. I don't know if it could be done. I think I have contributed more than I can effectively suggest. With no outcome that would have made a difference. It is what it is. Matthew choose to do what he did and unless we know what he was thinking we won't know why he choose to continue the dive without looking around.

 

[fosterboxermom]

There is a video of this dive?

A very short one maybe 10 seconds of when we stopped but it shows positions of the divers not much more.

 

[Cave Diver]

Besides, as you pointed out above, "WE" left him and "NO ONE" went to look for him. If you had plenty of air and thought that the appropriate action was to initiate a search for a lost diver at an unknown depth, why didn't you hand Pam off to Matthew and descend yourself?

Blackwood,

You, I, or at least a half dozen others participating in this thread would probably have broken off from the group and searched for the diver when he was first discovered missing and attempted to rescue him, even if he'd been found at an extreme depth.

I understand where your question is coming from, but I'm not sure it's very fair to ask of the poster. She is most likely just venting from her sense of loss, frustration, helplessness, etc. She's already stated that she wasn't comfortable going deep, that's why she stayed at 60'. Also, even though the groups expectations of the care from the dive guide were higher than what was provided, many people would still feel reluctant to leave that care and search on their own.

 

[Cave Diver]

Sorry it was something I was just thinking about. I don't know if it could be done. I think I have contributed more than I can effectively suggest. With no outcome that would have made a difference. It is what it is. Matthew choose to do what he did and unless we know what he was thinking we won't know why he choose to continue the dive without looking around.

If I was to guess, I would assume that he was thinking the other diver had decided to surface. Someone aborting the dive early is more common than someone hell bent to find the bottom of an abyss.

A better choice than continuing the dive might have been to ascend, and look for signs of the missing diver from a higher vantage point, before surfacing and checking there.

But as you said in an earlier post, it is what it is. In retrospect, having the group surface wouldnt likely have changed the outcome for Brendan.

 

[GaryLee]

Things I still haven't managed to get my head around and I really am not having a go at anyone but it does seem that more and more about the dive comes to light when i ask these questions so


FosterBoxerMom.

I am not having a dig, I just see that more and more is coming out about the dive and we are seeing more and more Facts from you.


Why did you split diving with your husband for diving with a woman you didn't know and only just met when you believed it was the responsibility of the Dive Guide to look after the safety of the divers? If it was because you didn't trust him then why did let your husband dive with him or why didn't you ask your husband to stay with you. Is he more experienced than you? Because I am sure an experienced diver having trouble breathing would after ascending 20ft not then decend again after getting his breathing under control but rather come over to you and finish the dive with his wife whom could look out for him. I don't know that's why I am asking.

Right so we now have two groups as a definitive that's good. The Dive Guide knew you and Pam were staying above the rest of the group so he knew he had 5 with him. Or was it four because he didn;t know where your husband was suposed to be. You said you weren't sure if he knew so perhaps he was only ever looking for 4 behind him assuming that your husband was above him on your group (husband and wife diving together) that you'd made clear was going to dive at a different depth. Do you see where I am going with this.

Now, aborting the dive, Why yes he could have made you all go up and surface swim back to the boat but why do that if you have lost a diver and are 10 minutes from the boat when you are going to swim back along the route you've been on and more than likely see him? after all The Dive Guide stopped at the turning and asked you where he was so he could only be behind the group somewhere not in front. Now of course, he could have been on the surface at this time and in trouble so perhaps he should have sent some of you up. But you were aware of the missing diver so he wouldn't want to send you. You would have been too valuable looking for the missing diver as you returned to the boat.



The Computer
I didn't attribute my comments on the computer to you. What I said was that an SPG and a Watch Were Good enough for you. You clearly were happy to dive without a computer going so far as to tell the guide that you didn't have one and your buddy didn't need one. the threads after yours go more into the computer.
You Asked: why would he give his computer to a novice diver to wear who was going to dive a different profile from the one the Dive Guide knew and also was going to stay down for an extra 10 minutes when the rest of the group had surfaced. It's a good safety measure I guess. He can check when you surface that you did a safe dive, ascended not too quickly and wouldn't need watching for DCS. I don't know. Then again do you think it was for some malevolent reason?

He tried to put his computer on Pam, she is saying "I don't need this. He kept doing it. I was saying she doesn't need it she is going to be with me.

All the stuff you've now mentioned about an extra 10 minutes diving for you and you doing a 30 minute dive instead of everyone elses 20 minute dive is new and only just seen in your last post. So you planned on a completely different dive to the rest of the group,

Now There is no way in this situation an experienced diver would put another diver (you) in the position of having to take all of your gear off underwater and ascending on an alternate air source from an inexperienced diver who needed you to look after her. That's not the actions of a Reasonably Prudent SCUBA Instructor. How do I know, because I am one. what qualifications do I have for this. I have been called as an expert witness as a Reasonably Prudent SCUBA Instructor so I guess if the Law courts of the UK say so then I am happy with that.

The truth might be that you were taught not to be further than 4ft away from your buddy and it's a good idea for newbie divers and inexperienced divers but it's not necessary for divers and isn't part of any written PADI Course that certified divers should follow this practice. Now I say this as I am not aware of it. I'm happy to be corrected on this

Just like the board is hearing what you believe were the events and how they unfolded. You being there is important to that. I am only saying what I believe. No I wasn't there but did get a chance before the shutters came down to talk to second hand witnesses.