Diver Death in Cayman

[GaryLee]

I don't have a plant so please don't think I would do something like that. I have been very open, honest, truthful and and factual to the best of my ability with what happened. I am still working through the pain as is my friend. I want something good to come of this. I am trying to help everyone understand something that has been a completely horrific tragedy and turn it into something that will be positive for everyone. So if there is a plant here it is not on my behalf.

I for one don't think you do.
I wouldn't even suggest that you did.
Please stop thinking that all of these posts are having a dig at you they are not.
We can see that when we assk the right questions you give us lots of facts back now and more is being gained from this

Gary

 

[fosterboxermom]

I really tried to stay out of discussing this tragedy, but I can't.



I don't think that taking an experienced diver's (your) tank and reg and forcing an inexperienced diver (Pam) to share air on an ascent with a non-professional is necessarily the best thing to do. As was said about 70+ pages ago, the first goal in a rescue is to not make two victims, and even that refers to the rescuer becoming a victim, not some third party.

I doubt that would be considered 'safe protocol' by most any DM trainer.

Besides, as you pointed out above, "WE" left him and "NO ONE" went to look for him. If you had plenty of air and thought that the appropriate action was to initiate a search for a lost diver at an unknown depth, why didn't you hand Pam off to Matthew and descend yourself?



That's still very confusing. I'm not surprised that a DM with such a splintered group would lose track of someone.



This is all very tragic and unfortunate. If it were me, I'd try to put it past me. Laying the blame on someone won't bring your friend back, nor will it (likely) affect the dive industry in a positive way.

I couldn't hand Pam off to Matthew he was at 100 ft and Pam was at 60ft. She didn't want to go that deep and diving with her, her skills were (let's just say she needed more training) I also don't go that deep because I don't have medical clearance and have type 2 DM which I disclosed. Also, I didn't know the slope went off so deep, Matthew didn't explain that in detail I just thought it was a hard bottom we were diving along at a 100ft or a little deeper. I only found that out after the dive. Only Matthew knew that. But had I known the bottom was that deep and there was a deeper spot I would have swan to that location and at least looked down and banged on my tank. We all could have banged our tanks. Whether it would have helped I don't know. What I am saying is nothing was done. What would you have done in my situation? I looked around in the water and didn't see Brendan. And when Matthew continued the Dive I ASSUMED (and I know now you should never assume anything) that someone must have told him Brendan went to the surface and was OK. Because in my mind WHAT DM WOULD LEAVE A DIVER BEHIND? Is there one on this board that would? Unless they know for sure they cannot save that person without killing them self. And we didn't know that. Nothing was done or any attempt was made to stop and access what had just happened.

 

[Cave Diver]

No I wasn't there but did get a chance before the shutters came down to talk to second hand witnesses.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[pilot fish]

Actually, I've just seen this is your first post and also that you are a Course Director for CMAS and you teach Instructors.

Something doesn't smell right here. Brand new to the board, teaches instructors, is a Course Director and made the above statements withoug reading the posts....

I think we have a PLANT guys........

I was thinking the same thing about YOU.

 

[fosterboxermom]

I also want to say that Brendan could have played a big part in his own death, but that doesn't mean that you just let someone die because they did something by meaning to or not meaning to. You try to help them and then if you can you save them and then give them a good talking to. Just as you would your own son or daughter if they just did something stupid that could or did endanger their life. So I am not laying ALL the blame on Matthew I am simply saying he could have done MORE to look for Brendan and simply choose not to. And I don't know why. And I guess that bothers me because Matthew has so much more training than I do and I can come up with a 100 scenarios of what I would of done if give the opportunity again. However, I have learned I will not put myself in that situation again with a group dive and I will have some safety training behind me before I dive again. Assuming I will dive again.

 

[GaryLee]

I was thinking the same thing about YOU.

Is it just my paranoia then, reading the post and then the profile...
just didn't seem to be something a professional would come out with before reading any prior posts or enough to give an educated response. after all the answers to all the posters questions are in the posts...

Hey, I can't be a plant. I've disclosed all about me and offered for anyone to come along and dive with me etc in the UK... remember the posts way back then

 

[pilot fish]

No sensible, fair person could read your honest posts and conclude you have a plant here. For what reason?

I don't have a plant so please don't think I would do something like that. I have been very open, honest, truthful and and factual to the best of my ability with what happened. I am still working through the pain as is my friend. I want something good to come of this. I am trying to help everyone understand something that has been a completely horrific tragedy and turn it into something that will be positive for everyone. So if there is a plant here it is not on my behalf.

 

[Blackwood]

Blackwood,

She is most likely just venting from her sense of loss, frustration, helplessness, etc. She's already stated that she wasn't comfortable going deep, that's why she stayed at 60'. Also, even though the groups expectations of the care from the dive guide were higher than what was provided, many people would still feel reluctant to leave that care and search on their own.

Likewise, I think it's unfair to expect someone else to initiate a search in (what turns out to be) 300 feet of water. It's a bit of a stretch to just happen upon someone qualified to dive to 300 feet (that's probably what... 0.1% of all divers worldwide?), let alone successfully complete a solo rescue from that depth with two partially full tanks of what would at a minimum (assuming Air) be extremely narcotic and well beyond industry standard safe PO₂ levels.

My intent wasn't to suggest that she should have done it, but rather to suggest that she shouldn't expect someone else to do it, especially in light of the fact that we're publicly discussing a matter that will undergo legal proceedings.

 

[Cave Diver]

Likewise, I think it's unfair to expect someone else to initiate a search in (what turns out to be) 300 feet of water. It's a bit of a stretch to just happen upon someone qualified to dive to 300 feet (that's probably what... 0.1% of all divers worldwide?), let alone successfully complete a solo rescue from that depth with two partially full tanks of what would at a minimum (assuming Air) be extremely narcotic and well beyond industry standard safe PO₂ levels.

Agreed. Wait, are people allowed to agree in this thread?

 

[GaryLee]

I also want to say that Brendan could have played a big part in his own death, but that doesn't mean that you just let someone die because they did something by meaning to or not meaning to. You try to help them and then if you can you save them and then give them a good talking to. Just as you would your own son or daughter if they just did something stupid that could or did endanger their life. So I am not laying ALL the blame on Matthew I am simply saying he could have done MORE to look for Brendan and simply choose not to. And I don't know why. And I guess that bothers me because Matthew has so much more training than I do and I can come up with a 100 scenarios of what I would of done if give the opportunity again. However, I have learned I will not put myself in that situation again with a group dive and I will have some safety training behind me before I dive again. Assuming I will dive again.

You're right there are scenarios where things could have turned out different and you've come up with a couple which is good thinking.
The problem is that with experience and knowledge comes an understanding of what can and can't be done whilst minimising risk. As you say Matthew has so much more training so whatever happened he made a decision based on his experience and training and acted accordingly. He will live with his choice for the rest of his life as will Pam and I for one don't wish that on anyone.