Diver Death in Cayman

[shoredivr]

Thal, you've posted about the air siphon before, thanks for reminding me.

 

[pilot fish]

I have an air integrated system, air 2. Would that still work? Why would I do all that when I can fin up at a steady pace? What is the advantage to air syphon over regualr ascent?

An Air Siphon is a great tool to have in your bag of tricks:
Slightly over inflate your vest or wing and assume a heads up ascent position. As you start to move up, hold the inflator hose as far down (deep) as you are able and hold the oral inflation button open.

Bring the hose up (shallower) till air starts to flow out of the mouthpiece, then lower it (deeper) till it just stops. You now have an air siphon from your vest or wing that you can use to control your ascent rate with amazing precision.

The only problem is that the direction is counter-intuitive, raise the mouthpiece up to slow your ascent and lower it down to speed it up.

Remember to keep the oral inflation button OPEN ALL THE TIME.

Remember that the shallower you are the "touchier" the control is.

 

[Thalassamania]

It will work with an AIR-II if you can ever figure out which button to push.

The problem with fining is that it takes energy, and in a moment of excitement energy takes the thing that it is most important to conserve - AIR.

A siphon lets you rather precisely, with very little energy, and very little distraction, control your ascent. Let your gear do the work, while you concentrate on maintaining situational awareness and fine control of your ascent.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Great info on the Air Siphon Thal. Thanks for explaining it.

I'd never considered the possibility of doing that, and it is so logical (which is why it never occured to me ).

Two thumbs up

Best wishes.

 

[Riger]

Fear comes from the unknown, thinking it thorough is the first step toward dispelling fear, training is the next step and practicing regularly produces the firm third leg of the tripod,

This statement is worth so much more than it's weight in gold.

For me this forum/board is the trigger for much contemplation on important issues related to this incredible thing that we do.

At the risk of going over the top; I think that people that participate in this forum are already on the road to increased awareness and safer diving. Of course cementing this with proper training and regular practice is the right way to go, but even participation here must have made better divers and saved lives already.

Thank you all for your most valuable food for thought.

Best Regards
Richard

 

[GaryLee]

Yes, We all went down together and did our OK signs to each other. Also we saw him with the group initially. Then I got focused on Pam's skills, but I kept an eye on the "whole" group so I knew which way they were heading to make sure we didn't get lost. And his tank was empty when he was discovered.

I have read every post on this as I am sure others have too.

I don't remember anyone mentioning his tank was empty when he was found and as this thread is about working out how he died I would say that this is probably an important part of the puzzle.

I have a point that nobody seems to have raised. If there was no one on the boat, it was moored up. We have now been told that the breifing gave depths and Maximum time (20 minutes) therefore after 10 Minutes when the victim was seen to be missing The group as a whole was turning left to begin the journey back to the boat. Surely they would have headed back along the wall pretty much the way they came but at a shallower depth? So with the Dive Guide at the front what more could he do to find the missing diver and get everyone back to the safety of the boat. If the visibility was as good as FosterBoxerMom says it was, would the Dive Guide have been able to see the bubbles of the missing diver. Or should he have alarmed everyone and sent them up while he swam back along the route alone?

Also FosterBoxerMom being a more experienced diver stayed with the victims fiance. and the couple were together. From my understanding the Dive Guide was looking after the youngster of the group which leaves FosterBoxerMoms Husband and the deceased. Can she ask what he saw as he was either part of a group of 4 not buddied up partnersor the buddy to the deceased. His feelings on this would really help us understand what occured. I am sure he was as vigilant about diving buddies as she was, keeping an eye on her as she was of him so he must have known or been told by her in signals that there was a missing diver?

Did all of the other divers surface back at the boat?

As for the DiveComputer. If FosterBoxerMom Doesn't need one to dive and says her Buddy doesn't need one then why the hell would an experienced Dive Guide need one?
an SPG and watch were good enough for her so should be good enough for the guide. Who turned after 10 minutes (half way through the planned dive) so was pretty switched on there.

I don't like diving without a computer personally infact I try not to dive without 2 but having done close to 3000 dives now with over 2500 logged I would be quite comfortable with just a watch and my SPG.

Gary

 

[Divemercenary]

Wow! I'm both concerned and confused! What a terrible loss! Confused because a Divemaster is only responsible for broad planning not individual dive profiles for certified divers. What happened? How did he/she kill a diver???? I don't want to go somewhere like that!

 

[GaryLee]

Wow! I'm both concerned and confused! What a terrible loss! Confused because a Divemaster is only responsible for broad planning not individual dive profiles for certified divers. What happened? How did he/she kill a diver???? I don't want to go somewhere like that!

Divemercenary.
Before posting please read the previous posts and get an overview. That will allow you to make a decent contribution to the board.

Your final question should also be removed as it is completely inapropriate and suggests something that has neither been proven or mentioned by the OP of this thread.

All the best
Gary

 

[GaryLee]

Wow! I'm both concerned and confused! What a terrible loss! Confused because a Divemaster is only responsible for broad planning not individual dive profiles for certified divers. What happened? How did he/she kill a diver???? I don't want to go somewhere like that!

Actually, I've just seen this is your first post and also that you are a Course Director for CMAS and you teach Instructors.

Something doesn't smell right here. Brand new to the board, teaches instructors, is a Course Director and made the above statements withoug reading the posts....

I think we have a PLANT guys........

 

[fosterboxermom]

I have read every post on this as I am sure others have too.

I don't remember anyone mentioning his tank was empty when he was found and as this thread is about working out how he died I would say that this is probably an important part of the puzzle.

I have a point that nobody seems to have raised. If there was no one on the boat, it was moored up. We have now been told that the breifing gave depths and Maximum time (20 minutes) therefore after 10 Minutes when the victim was seen to be missing The group as a whole was turning left to begin the journey back to the boat. Surely they would have headed back along the wall pretty much the way they came but at a shallower depth? So with the Dive Guide at the front what more could he do to find the missing diver and get everyone back to the safety of the boat. If the visibility was as good as FosterBoxerMom says it was, would the Dive Guide have been able to see the bubbles of the missing diver. Or should he have alarmed everyone and sent them up while he swam back along the route alone?

Also FosterBoxerMom being a more experienced diver stayed with the victims fiance. and the couple were together. From my understanding the Dive Guide was looking after the youngster of the group which leaves FosterBoxerMoms Husband and the deceased. Can she ask what he saw as he was either part of a group of 4 not buddied up partnersor the buddy to the deceased. His feelings on this would really help us understand what occured. I am sure he was as vigilant about diving buddies as she was, keeping an eye on her as she was of him so he must have known or been told by her in signals that there was a missing diver?

Did all of the other divers surface back at the boat?

As for the DiveComputer. If FosterBoxerMom Doesn't need one to dive and says her Buddy doesn't need one then why the hell would an experienced Dive Guide need one?
an SPG and watch were good enough for her so should be good enough for the guide. Who turned after 10 minutes (half way through the planned dive) so was pretty switched on there.

I don't like diving without a computer personally infact I try not to dive without 2 but having done close to 3000 dives now with over 2500 logged I would be quite comfortable with just a watch and my SPG.

Gary

Gary Lee, to answer your first question, yes we made a left turn and headed back but though reef at a shallower depth (actually the group did, remember Pam and I were above them). However, at that point that is where we were missing Brendan. Matthew had the option as the DM to tell everyone to:

1. Abort the dive
2. Stay put and he could swim over to the drop off and see if he could EVEN see Brendan.
3. Tell Pam and I to go up since we were only at 60ft and really didn't need to do a safety stop if we did a slow safe ascend.
4. Alert the rest of the divers that Brendan was missing. I was the only one that knew this information and let everyone else choose to continue or abort.

I had plenty of air in my tank as we all started with 3200 psi. I had at least 2000 psi left. He could have taken my tank and reg. Pam and I could and shared and gone to the surface very safely. The rest could have gone to the surface with a safety stop. There were seven of us. We could have saved Brendan IF we had someone with the knowledge of how to do it and what to do in that kind of emergency. And we all had plenty of air at that point. The fact is Brendan was lost at that point and we LEFT him. DO YOU GET THAT WE LEFT HIM!!! No one bothered to even to a swim around and see if just maybe he went down a little further than he should have and was savable.

And I don't know where you get Matthew was looking out for the Minor. I was on that boat and at NO time did I nor my husband nor Pam ever hear that Matthew was going to be or only look out for the Minor. He was in the group of 5 just as the rest of them were. I even saw the group when they were stopped and a video of the stopping. It shows Matthew, the woman from San Diego following Matthew, Her Husband taping behind his wife, the minor is not even in the video. If Matthew was watching out for the Minor he was doing is piss poor job of it. Sorry, but I learned in basic training that you keep your buddy within 4 ft of you and that minor was not within 4 ft of Matthew ANY time I saw the group. The couple from San Diego was. Maybe Matthew is trying to cover is ass, I don't know. But that is the truth and I won't waver from it.

And as far as the computer goes, I didn't say it wasn't good enough for me I said Matthew couldn't understand how I could do a dive at 60ft and hover above them without one and have 10 minutes extra of dive time when they were done with their dive. Since they were going to a 100 and we were only going to 60 I asked if we could stay around the bottom for an extra 10 minutes and he couldn't understand how I could do that without a computer. I told him I had a watch with a rotating bezel and a gauge and I would watch my depth and time. If they had 20 minutes we could have 30minutes. He had a hard time understanding that, I had to repeat it very slowly to him several times. But why was he trying to give his computer to someone that didn't even know how to use it nor wanted it?

My husband doesn't normally dive to 100ft either and since then we have talked about it. All our dive previously we have NEVER been taken to a site and said the depth was 100ft so I think we were both thrown for a loop and it threw us off kilter and our normal routine. Then with this new couple in the middle and me speaking up saying I will dive with her. It left my hubby to dive alone. He didn't know Brendan and he is not a very social person. We also have been in a group dive on many dives before so he just thought he would go with the group. At the half way point when Matthew was signaling to me, my husband was having a little trouble breathing at 100ft so he came up to 80ft just for about a minute got his breathing under control and went back down. I saw him do this because he was in back of the group behind the minor and up 20ft just below me. I pointed him out to Matthew because when Matthew asked me where is your buddy and I pointed to Pam, I thought he might mean my husband as well so I pointed to him too and I noticed his breathing. I also asked my husband if he was OK and he signaled back and by this time Matthew was continuing on with the dive. But to sum it up there were 2 groups 1 set of buddies Pam and I and no buddies in the second group of 5 with Matthew.