Diver Death in Cayman

[bsee65]

Pam spoke up about being a New diver and Brendan being New and she did not want to go to a 100 ft. and I voiced that I DON'T dive to 100 ft. He ignored us. He tried to put his computer on Pam, she is saying "I don't need this. He kept doing it. I was saying she doesn't need it she is going to be with me. (I thought it was an extra computer) I didn't know it was his. We kept telling him we weren't going to a 100ft we were going to hover above them. He said how are you going to do that without a computer? I said I have a depth gauge and a watch I can look at.

Okay, so you two spoke up, and when it came down to it, you were the more experienced diver in your pair/group. It sounds like your explanation about the gauge may also have led the DM to label you as the leader of the 60' party.

We all were in the water. Matthew was the last to get in. From the boat he told us to go down and he would meet us at the bottom. We descended Pam and I to our 60ft with the rest of the group and her and I stayed at that depth.

So, it would be reasonable to expect that the divers were all together when they initially reached the bottom at 100' and that the DM knew how many were in his group at that point?

I pretty much stayed with her focused on her because she was having buoyancy problems the whole dive. When we got to the half way point at 10mins is when Matthew signaled to me there where only 6 dives. Why he picked me I don't know. And where we lost Brendan I don't know. No one knows. Only God and Brendan know, but it was around that point. And speculation is that he was lost somewhere right there because that is where the bottom sloped and went deeper and deeper and the group was making a left turn. Speculation is Brendan got NC and didn't make the turn kept going deeper and deeper, remember I said SPECULATION.

That's pretty reasonable speculation and this is the first I think you've mentioned about the direction of the dive plan. It sounds like you were dropped at a point that was a bit shallower and safely over a hard bottom. Then, the group began working deeper along the bottom until it started to drop off, at which point the plan was to turn left, following the bottom on a parallel that wouldn't take you over the deep drop. From the "follow me" description, it sounds like the DM never specified the plan even as briefly as I just summarized it?

As far as why he signaled to you, I think my comment above explains that. He saw you as the leader of your "group". If Brendan had said something about just wanting to get down to 100' to say he did it, the DM might have believed that he then retreated back up to you at 60' after achieving his goal. Clearly, it should have been obvious that he hadn't done that since there were only two of you. Also, since you two were hovering above, he might have hoped you had seen Brendan ascend if he had done so. Even if you weren't paying careful attention to the group below you, you might have noticed if one diver separated from the pack coming up. By the way, how proximate were the divers to each other in the deeper group? DId they generally stay pretty close, or were they spread out?

Personally, I am still surprised that, if you were paying enough attention to hover above the group, that you didn't occasionally pick out Brendan and your husband from the group, but I wasn't there in those conditions on that day. Were they not wearing anything unique that would have allowed you to identify them, or did you see them periodically, but just miss the point where Brendan separated?

What I have learned from this is that I will never under any circumstances leave my Buddy (husband) to go with a less experienced diver again. And I will advise other divers not to go to a depth that is not within their limits.

If you and your husband are on a dive in the future with another less experienced couple, it still wouldn't be a bad thing for you to split and buddy with the other pair. It depends upon the situation and your goals for the dive. If Brendan had a true buddy of any decent experience level, he might have come back. That said, it can't be your responsibility to take care of other divers on the trip at the expense of not enjoying the dive you guys paid for.

I will make sure there is safety equipment on the boat and I or others know how to use it. I will know how to use the radio and the call numbers of the boat. I will check out a dive shop before I dive with them and make sure they are operating under the laws of that country. I will be responsible for myself and only myself (of course my buddy). I am taking a First aid course to be certified in CPR and 100%02 and AED. I will be prepared for my next dive. I have also learned that SOME DM's are good for nothing other than selling you on your next course. Know who you are diving with!!

Sounds like you're heading in a direction that not only makes you self-sufficient, but also puts you in better position to provide aid to others. No arguing with that.

-bob

 

[Cave Diver]

i did not read all 53 pages. but wasnt this man an adult, if so he should have had some personal accountabilty for his own well being?

Been pretty much beat to death in the last 700+ posts.

 

[sqweezy]

Rosebud, thank you for backing me up!! Now maybe some of these people will know what I am talking about. If not they can go to the Cayman's and dive, but good luck. they are taking their lives and their buddies lives in their hands. I am just trying to spread the word that one particular shop is not operation according to Cayman laws and regulations and the DM we had was unprofessional in my opinion and caused my friend his life.

i normally like to keep MY LIFE in MY OWN HANDS...we cant always blame others for poor decisions.

update..........i should read the entire post.. my bad

 

[pilot fish]

I got what pilot Fish was saying after his tenth post. I needn't hear it 50 more times unless he had something new to say.That is all.

I got what was said about this poor diver doing this to himself, it was all his fault and it was the fault of his training, or lack of, etc, on the first page. I just don't need to hear it a 100 times more, unless you have something new to say. Someone has to defend this deceased diver. We already know this diver should not have wanted to go to 100 ft, but that's the kind of newbie dumb stuff that happens. That is also why you, as an instructor, tell him he should not do that. Why the hell did this dive guide agree to go to 100 ft with this newbie, with only 4 cert dives? HUH? My point is, this diver would be alive today, this minute, if the person leading the dive had done his job.

 

[ScubaSteve]

i normally like to keep MY LIFE in MY OWN HANDS...we cant always blame others for poor decisions.

While this thought was more original than your last post, I say this thread has run its course a dozen times. I hope rather than simply opening up old wounds, you will eventually get around to adding an original point to this thread.

 

[fosterboxermom]

While this thread has been difficult to get through at times and even painful to get through with all of the fighting and "name calling", I am very glad to see, just as I am sure everyone else is, that you have been able to take a lesson away from this horrific accident. I cannot imagine what you have been through and I commend you on your ability to maintain involvement in this thread while remaining composed and dignified. I pray I never have to find out, but I hope I can act as well as you have here if I ever find myself in your shoes. Thank you for your input and I truly hope that all of Brendan's family and friends can find peace knowing that he is living his next life now. We, as a collective community can hopefully take away some of the valuable information here and learn the same things as you. This community of divers is a close knit group that wants every diver to break the surface safely after every dive. We never enjoy hearing about the loss of a fellow diver irrespective of who it was or what happened. I for one will remember this accident the next time I hear of somebody putting too much faith or responsibility on another diver (or DM).

Thank you. Difficult to say the least. I mean it when I say that this thread has really helped me grow and I think everyone can tell from my first post to now. I do have to say that I probably suffer from some PTSD and it is to be expected. However, my grief is nothing compared to my dear friend Pam. We didn't even know each other until that fateful day. But we have become so close because of what she/us went through that will forever change our lives. Some for the good. Her and Brendan were going to be married in two days before this happened. She told me of the dreams and plans they had made together for their lives. Pam had lost a husband just 4 short years ago to a heart attack and Brendan had gotten her to give her heart again. They were so in love. This was their first vacation together and they were so excited to be new diver's and in such a beautiful place. All they wanted was to be in love and do something together that was so beautiful. The only consoling I could give her was to tell her how much he loved her and that he died in a beautiful place, in love and happy. Not many of us might be able to say that when the time comes. Pam had to stay an additional week and a half, do an additional identification of Brendan's remains before the autopsy after he had been dead over a week. Think of how that must of been for her. My heart has been aching for her. I have prayed for her everyday since this accident 04/26/09 and I continue to do so. She is such a wonderful person. She is licensed Nurse Practitioner in CO and treats our Soldiers for PTSD when they come home from back from this terrible war we are continuing to have.

 

[joker31]

OK, lavasurfer, help me understand a few things. Do you think this "dive guide" acted professionally? What would YOU have said if a BRAND NEW DIVER, who had just been certified, came to you on a dive boat and wanted to dive to a 100 ft on that very first dive? Would you have said ANYTHING to him? uh, this "dive guide did not, and agreed to take him to 100 ft. Would YOU have taken him to 100 ft????

My crusade? read tricia excellent post, that might help you.

You see thats the point.... This diver never should have wanted to do that dive so early in his diving career. Now should the DM had said something? Yes! But the diver never should have had these ideas..... What if he gone Bonaire where it is almost all shore diving and no DM/DG. There you can follow the slope down to some 500-600ft. Sounds to me like if this diver had been there, the same thing would have happened. Did the DM/DG screw up by not fixing a potential turned actual problem? Yes.... But the diver never should have caused the problem situation in the first place.

 

[Cave Diver]

While this thought was more original than your last post, I say this thread has run its course a dozen times. I hope rather than simply opening up old wounds, you will eventually get around to adding an original point to this thread.

He's about 750 posts behind the rest of us right now. May take him a while to see this response. Which is why I sent a PM.

 

[fosterboxermom]

Okay, so you two spoke up, and when it came down to it, you were the more experienced diver in your pair/group. It sounds like your explanation about the gauge may also have led the DM to label you as the leader of the 60' party.



So, it would be reasonable to expect that the divers were all together when they initially reached the bottom at 100' and that the DM knew how many were in his group at that point?



That's pretty reasonable speculation and this is the first I think you've mentioned about the direction of the dive plan. It sounds like you were dropped at a point that was a bit shallower and safely over a hard bottom. Then, the group began working deeper along the bottom until it started to drop off, at which point the plan was to turn left, following the bottom on a parallel that wouldn't take you over the deep drop. From the "follow me" description, it sounds like the DM never specified the plan even as briefly as I just summarized it?

As far as why he signaled to you, I think my comment above explains that. He saw you as the leader of your "group". If Brendan had said something about just wanting to get down to 100' to say he did it, the DM might have believed that he then retreated back up to you at 60' after achieving his goal. Clearly, it should have been obvious that he hadn't done that since there were only two of you. Also, since you two were hovering above, he might have hoped you had seen Brendan ascend if he had done so. Even if you weren't paying careful attention to the group below you, you might have noticed if one diver separated from the pack coming up. By the way, how proximate were the divers to each other in the deeper group? DId they generally stay pretty close, or were they spread out?

Personally, I am still surprised that, if you were paying enough attention to hover above the group, that you didn't occasionally pick out Brendan and your husband from the group, but I wasn't there in those conditions on that day. Were they not wearing anything unique that would have allowed you to identify them, or did you see them periodically, but just miss the point where Brendan separated?



If you and your husband are on a dive in the future with another less experienced couple, it still wouldn't be a bad thing for you to split and buddy with the other pair. It depends upon the situation and your goals for the dive. If Brendan had a true buddy of any decent experience level, he might have come back. That said, it can't be your responsibility to take care of other divers on the trip at the expense of not enjoying the dive you guys paid for.



Sounds like you're heading in a direction that not only makes you self-sufficient, but also puts you in better position to provide aid to others. No arguing with that.

-bob

Yes, His group was together at that point according to my hubby who was in the 100 ft group.

Sorry, Matthew did describe the dive plan and that there would be a left turn where it would start to drop off, however, he didn't mention it was going to drop off that steep, he just said we were going to make a left turn and before the turn it would look like he was ascending when actually the bottom was sloping down. (I hope that makes sense.)

Yes, he could have thought Brendan was with us, however the vis was 100 ft + and I always had the group in my sight even though I was staying with Pam. And when I looked around I saw everyone and I knew exactly what everyone was wearing that is how I knew Brendan was missing. I did see my husband. If my husband was missing, I would have aborted the dive no questions asked. I just trusted Matthew thinking he knew where Brendan was when he continued the dive. At the point that he knew Brendan was missing is when he should have aborted the dive even if he didn't know the circumstances. It might have ruined the dive for the rest of us but we would have been fine knowing that he was OK or not OK. I know the outcome would not have been different for Brendan, but I think the rest of us would know that he did every thing he should or could have done and it would of made us feel better. But continuing the dive knowing he was missing is hard to take.


The guilt I feel is that I knew Brendan was missing as well. No one else did. Matthew only signaled to me and communicated with me. And when I turned to check on Pam, and I turned back to Matthew he was continuing the dive and I kept diving as well. I feel guilty because I thought something was wrong and I should have banged my tank and gotten his attention and signaled that we abort the dive and go up.

 

[pilot fish]

yes, I agree but that is precisely why brand new divers have to be watched more closely. What this diver did wrong has been beaten to death here so let's now turn that focus, for a while at least, and explore what this sorry mess of a dm should have done,ok?

You see thats the point.... This diver never should have wanted to do that dive so early in his diving career. Now should the DM had said something? Yes! But the diver never should have had these ideas..... What if he gone Bonaire where it is almost all shore diving and no DM/DG. There you can follow the slope down to some 500-600ft. Sounds to me like if this diver had been there, the same thing would have happened. Did the DM/DG screw up by not fixing a potential turned actual problem? Yes.... But the diver never should have caused the problem situation in the first place.