Diver Death in Cayman

[fosterboxermom]

1) Thanks for clarifying that

2) Vis was around 100' correct? Nobody saw this accident unfolding? Maybe assumed that although he was getting a little further away that it wasn't a big deal? I've been on mob dives before and when someone is going considerably deeper or wandering away from the group it is pretty obvious (at least for me) in good vis conditions to notice that developing.

3) I have emailed my PADI rep to ask for clarification on this issue. If and when I hear back I will update. The roll calls and head counts are, IMHO, to ensure that nobody gets left behind. The issue at hand here is u/w behavior of the DM and what is expected - should they be responsible for checking pressure's throughout the dive (I've always been told by DM's to let them know when I am at half a tank or something similar), likewise on how to keep the group together.

1. Yes vis was around 100'. Yes nobody saw this or we would have banged on our tanks to get his attention or gone to a safe depth to get him without risking ourselves, something had we seen him. Now remember there were two groups. Pam and I at 60' and the other group at 100'. I was mainly focused on Pam because she was having major buoyancy issues. However, I kept turning around to make sure I had an eye on the group so I didn't lose site of the DM, I don't know these waters and I didn't want to get lost. And every dive I have been on even with a buddy, the DM tells everyone he wants to know the first person that gets to 1000psi. That means the dive is over. And they say if I swim over you make sure your gauges are up so I can read your pressure. Maybe I have just had good DM's I don't know, but I have been diving all over the Caribbean and MX to Guam and this is what I am use to.

As far as the topography of the dive site it is very hard for me to explain on the board. I could explain it in person or talk to someone which I have done with help from my husband. I am sorry about that.

 

[letterboy]

This disagreement between us revolved around the fact that you questioned if the OP was actually there or not. My point being that a complete reading of the thread would likely allow you to draw a different conclusion.

agreed, point taken

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

1. Yes vis was around 100'. Yes nobody saw this or we would have banged on our tanks to get his attention or gone to a safe depth to get him without risking ourselves, something had we seen him. Now remember there were two groups. Pam and I at 60' and the other group at 100'. I was mainly focused on Pam because she was having major buoyancy issues. However, I kept turning around to make sure I had an eye on the group so I didn't lose site of the DM, I don't know these waters and I didn't want to get lost. And every dive I have been on even with a buddy, the DM tells everyone he wants to know the first person that gets to 1000psi. That means the dive is over. And they say if I swim over you make sure your gauges are up so I can read your pressure. Maybe I have just had good DM's I don't know, but I have been diving all over the Caribbean and MX to Guam and this is what I am use to..

Did the DM ask everyone to keep an eye on their gauges and let him know whenever they hit 1000 psi (or some other number?)?. I can't say I've had too many DM's ask that I show my gauges to them - they'll often tell me how they want me to signal what my pressure is but to actually want to see the gauge would be different).

As for having 100' of vis and nobody seeing him disappear ... all I can say is wow, without more information about the topography or perhaps eventually the profile from his dive computer I can't see anything else being gained from speculating on this.

As far as the topography of the dive site it is very hard for me to explain on the board. I could explain it in person or talk to someone which I have done with help from my husband. I am sorry about that.

That's ok - now that you have given us a dive site name maybe someone who has dove it before can take a shot at it.

 

[fosterboxermom]

I wasn't going to post this and I know it won't clear up the issue if a DM is responsible for you or not but this is what Pam wrote to me and I don't know if she will be upset with me for posting this or not but I think this really sums things up. She is a very intelligent beautiful woman and if you all knew her or Brendan you would be blessed. I a glad that she is my friend. This is Pam's word's

Human caring & compassion dictates some sense of responsibility to our fellow human beings, whether it is in the job description or not. I find some of the comments reluctant to acknowledge that we are all responsible for ourselves & our safety but under circumstances such as diving--when diving with a professional tasked to keep you safe as well as guide you through 'cool stuff', it seems to me that basic human to human caring will be there as well. And when it is clear that someone hasn't the experience then extra care & concern is a human expectation, at least to me.

 

[letterboy]

Here is a link that shows a Google Earth view of the area the diver was found by the fishing boat in. It's called Dolphin Point: Dolphin Point / Dolphin Point, Cayman Islands (general), Cayman Islands, North America

I have not dove this particular site, but I have dove many of the other sites in close proximity.

Note that the word "site" is usually designated by some sort of a bouy or marker at a specific location. Keeping that in mind someone could dive off the area called Dolphin point without actually being at the "dive site" Dolphin point.

When you zoom in and view the map of this area, the light green area is normally a hard coral bottom, covered with thin layer of sediment and plants. IME, this area typically ranges from 10-70' and may be punctuated with shoals or coral heads.

The dark line between the lighter blue area and the greenish area is where the mini wall starts. The mini wall starts as shallow as 40' in places and drops off to about a max depth of about 120' although 70-90' is probably about average.

The light blue area in between the dark blue/black and the greenish area is typically sand flats. The sand flat can be a narrow strip, or a hundred+ yards wide, depending on the specific area. The flats can also contain coral heads and shoals.

The dark blue area is the main wall. The top of the wall typically starts around ~120' and is usually pretty dramatic. It does have a slight slope to it for the first 50-100' before becoming more vertical.

I'm not familair with the particular site that this group was at, so I can't comment on the accuracy of a hard bottom at 140'. In my experience, it would be unusual to find the bottom that deep without being close to the actual wall itself. If they were not on the wall, then its is likely that the diver would have to cross a fairly large sand flat before hitting the main wall and being able to go deeper.

If I can find depth charts for this specific area, I'll add them later.

Is this sort of what you are looking for as far as dive site information?

 

[fosterboxermom]

Did the DM ask everyone to keep an eye on their gauges and let him know whenever they hit 1000 psi (or some other number?)?. I can't say I've had too many DM's ask that I show my gauges to them - they'll often tell me how they want me to signal what my pressure is but to actually want to see the gauge would be different).

As for having 100' of vis and nobody seeing him disappear ... all I can say is wow, without more information about the topography or perhaps eventually the profile from his dive computer I can't see anything else being gained from speculating on this.



That's ok - now that you have given us a dive site name maybe someone who has dove it before can take a shot at it.

No the DM did not ask us anything, I was referring to other dives I have been on. I was doing a comparison to other DMs I have been diving with. Some want to do a visual some want to do a hand signal.

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

Is this sort of what you are looking for as far as dive site information?

If we could get it for the specific site then it might shed some light on the situation - I think the OP mentioned that this was the site that they came ashore and the ambulance me them.

 

[letterboy]

If we could get it for the specific site then it might shed some light on the situation - I think the OP mentioned that this was the site that they came ashore and the ambulance me them.

I probably would have gotten that from earlier post too huh

 

[fosterboxermom]

If we could get it for the specific site then it might shed some light on the situation - I think the OP mentioned that this was the site that they came ashore and the ambulance me them.

Yes, The actual dive site was called "Round Rock" It was about a 5 min boat ride from Dolphin Point and that was not where we initially boarded the boat. And to be honest with you I was not paying any attention to where we were coming back because I was consoling Pam the whole time telling her to keep praying and holing on. So when we pulled up to a dock I had no clue where we were. If you want to see a short video of it I can post that.

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

No the DM did not ask us anything, I was referring to other dives I have been on. I was doing a comparison to other DMs I have been diving with. Some want to do a visual some want to do a hand signal.

IMHO - not good. I think we have established that the DM made some extremely poor judgement calls but this would be an additional oversight on his part. Not saying this led to the situation but definitely leaves one scratching their head as to what he was (if anything) thinking.

Question - how old was the DM? Any idea how much experience he had as a DM?


I was told a story during my IDC about a recent OWSI who was working as an instructor at a resort on one of the islands ... he decided it would be ok to take some discover scuba participants to 150'+ ... all on alum 80's although at that level of stupidity - I don't think tank size really matters. Apparently after this stunt he was "asked" to leave.