Divemasters/Resorts making you flood and clear?

[wb416]

Maybe he was really just checking your ability to follow instructions.

...or separating the goats from the sheep!

(card carrying member of Contrarians Anonymous!) :14:

 

[jd950]

I'm getting the feeling I'm in the minority on this, which is fine...that's why I asked, although I am not sure why people keep reading the issue as one of an inability or unwillingness to clear a mask.

FWIW the effect of saltwater or other irritants on eyes varies greatly form one person to the next. People with a tendency to dry eyes would normally be much more subject to this problem. Simply letting the eyes dry does not cure the problem, you have to tear-up enough to re-lubricate the eyes.

So here's a question. Since the consensus is that PADI certification standards are too low and we can't trust certification to mean much, shouldn't we test out a DM before going with him? You know, make him explain DCS symptoms and treatment, prove he can administer oxygen correctly, do a tired diver tow, have him remove and don equipment, that sort of thing? Anyone do this?

 

[Rainer]

So here's a question. Since the consensus is that PADI certification standards are too low and we can't trust certification to mean much, shouldn't we test out a DM before going with him? You know, make him explain DCS symptoms and treatment, prove he can administer oxygen correctly, do a tired diver tow, have him remove and don equipment, that sort of thing? Anyone do this?

Are you relying on the DM to get you out of trouble? I'd rather rely on myself and my buddy. DM's just there to point out the seahorses. [Says the diver who has never been on a DM-led dive.]

 

[Steve50]

I'm getting the feeling I'm in the minority on this, which is fine...that's why I asked, although I am not sure why people keep reading the issue as one of an inability or unwillingness to clear a mask.

FWIW the effect of saltwater or other irritants on eyes varies greatly form one person to the next. People with a tendency to dry eyes would normally be much more subject to this problem. Simply letting the eyes dry does not cure the problem, you have to tear-up enough to re-lubricate the eyes.

So here's a question. Since the consensus is that PADI certification standards are too low and we can't trust certification to mean much, shouldn't we test out a DM before going with him? You know, make him explain DCS symptoms and treatment, prove he can administer oxygen correctly, do a tired diver tow, have him remove and don equipment, that sort of thing? Anyone do this?

jd maybe turn about is fair play - they ask you to show you can do what you are already certified to do - you ask them to show you what they are already certified to do. seems fair.

 

[johnny_bravo]

So here's a question. Since the consensus is that PADI certification standards are too low and we can't trust certification to mean much, shouldn't we test out a DM before going with him? You know, make him explain DCS symptoms and treatment, prove he can administer oxygen correctly, do a tired diver tow, have him remove and don equipment, that sort of thing? Anyone do this?

What consensus is this? And dont quote BS polls or material here on SB. Surely the largest dive training agency in the world has some good instructors and good divers...bad apples in every org bud.

Stop the bashing. Participate in intelligent discussion.

Cheers.

-J.-

 

[String]

Why test a DM? If you're not under instruction of some sort (ie a course) then nobody is responsible for your own safety other than yourself.

If you need babysitting then by all means ask them or talk to them.

Im of the view is the boat is just a taxi, a good divemaster is there to give me a good brief and stay on the boat and every diver alone takes responsibility for their own safety without relying or expecting someone else to. Thats off topic for here though.

Unfortunately just owning a certification card from any agency doesn't say anything to the operator about the competency of the diver in front of them. There are no regular tests to keep a card current.
All a card proves is that at some point in the past a person met the minimum standards required for that grade. It says nothing about their current state and ability of diving.
They have no idea if you can do all the drills blindfolded or if you blundered through a class 5 years ago and havent tried them since.
They have to be sure the person wanting to dive is actually competent to do the dive.

If someone came up to me and refused to do a mask clear i'd be suspicious. If someone said they didnt want to do one as it hurt their eyes i'd still be suspicious. Quite often people who have issues with a skill make up excuses not to have to do it. Maybe the person making a claim is genuine, maybe they aren't - you dont know so have to test them.
You cant differentiate between an inability or simply unwilling without testing.
Personally i'd be nervous of someone that claimed mask clearing caused a lot of difficulty with their eyes and question their fitness to dive if that was the case as you cant guarantee a mask wont get kicked off and so on.

 

[fisherdvm]

I see no reason to point finger at PADI, as I have dove with SSI certified diver who was totally incompetent. I would welcome a test of basic skill. If salt water irritated your eye so much, perhaps you shouldn't dive in salt water. If contact lenses bother you so much that you can't get it flooded, perhaps you should get prescription lenses.

All I know is, once I had an assigned buddy, who didn't like my slow (less than 30fpm) ascent rate, tried to inflate my BC so he can get to the surface faster..... I had to push the jerk away from me and gave him a good no, no... It makes me wonder if the C card means competency anymore.

 

[jd950]

When you folks point out that it is a separate checkout dive that doesn't burn up air or time or eyesight on the dives I am paying for, I don't care that much. As I said, as long they are not messing with my ability to watch the fishies, I am not too troubled. I wasn't too concerned about 10 or 15 minutes to demo the skills but add in the eye irritation afterwards and it could mess up most of a dive. I also imagine it takes awhile to run through the process with a whole boatload of divers.

I still am irritated by the lack of faith in the certifications, but my big issue was having a dive screwed up. I travel with my son who dives and my wife and another son who don't (yet) so I can only get so many dives in due to other activities, and I am kind of selfish about my limited dive time. I also think they should tell you about this so you can plan around it, like maybe be sure to arrive in an evening and not midmorning after the skills session and thus lose a day.

 

[Rainer]

All I know is, once I had an assigned buddy, who didn't like my slow (less than 30fpm) ascent rate, tried to inflate my BC so he can get to the surface faster..... I had to push the jerk away from me and gave him a good no, no... It makes me wonder if the C card means competency anymore.

Holy crap! I'd be reaching for my knife...

 

[Rainer]

I also think they should tell you about this so you can plan around it, like maybe be sure to arrive in an evening and not midmorning after the skills session and thus lose a day.

Agree, totally reasonable expectation. Having not dealt with this before, is this not made clear? Our "checkout" dive in Bonaire involved someone pointing us to the water and saying "have fun" (ok, there was also a useful tour of the dive "center" with where cylinders were kept and procedures on how to access e/t after hours, plus a discussion of which sites were favorites). There at least there was no "be here by X time or else".