Brand new Backscatter HF-1 flooded

[Nemrod]

I am asking this question due to my serious contemplation of purchasing two of these strobes in the coming year. I have used Inon strobes now for 25 years and never had any issue at all until one got dropped breaking the switch and is now probably done for. When I hear somebody has done 20 dives or a hundred dives with the HF-1 that sounds good but howabout a few thousand over 2+ decades? I guess I am spoiled but that is what I expect and that is my bar for reliability.

So, here is my question. The HF-1 has two o-rings. Is it possible one thick o-ring goes on the inside position for sealing and one thin o-ring goes on the outer position as a wiper and is it possible all you guys are mixing them up and that the China instructions, as is typical, are incomplete?

It is a cap with two o-rings, ought to work. Very similar to the Inon design which is pretty near 100% reliable. I remove, clean and inspect and then relube every battery change, do y'all?

I would like to get to the bottom of this because those are affordable and would make great reef scenic, sun ball and big animal strobes . I would still run my new Inon S220 strobes for general use.

 

[icouldcarelessbutdont]

I am asking this question due to my serious contemplation of purchasing two of these strobes in the coming year. I have used Inon strobes now for 25 years and never had any issue at all until one got dropped breaking the switch and is now probably done for. When I hear somebody has done 20 dives or a hundred dives with the HF-1 that sounds good but howabout a few thousand over 2+ decades? I guess I am spoiled but that is what I expect and that is my bar for reliability.

So, here is my question. The HF-1 has two o-rings. Is it possible one thick o-ring goes on the inside position for sealing and one thin o-ring goes on the outer position as a wiper and is it possible all you guys are mixing them up and that the China instructions, as is typical, are incomplete?

It is a cap with two o-rings, ought to work. Very similar to the Inon design which is pretty near 100% reliable. I remove, clean and inspect and then relube every battery change, do y'all?

I would like to get to the bottom of this because those are affordable and would make great reef scenic, sun ball and big animal strobes . I would still run my new Inon S220 strobes for general use.

For the o-rings, no, that is not the case at all, they are supposed to be the same, top and bottom, for the HF-1

We maintain everything to the highest standards, I don't skip maintenance on anything I own, the smallest known issue, or if it doesn't look/feel right, the gear is taken out of service to be inspected further and possibly repaired or "refreshed". I just got the checklist done for the camera equipment on an erasable laminate, so we can go through it each time, ensuring we skip no steps whatsoever, $5 now or $5,000 later ya know? We even have a breakdown on the back of it, we're just like that, checklists,

I have been told INON is a rock solid choice and you're not the only person I've heard say they have thousands of dives on one with absolutely zero issues whatsoever. I may try some out someday, but Kraken seemed to suit what my wife was wanting to do with her camera. I didn't know about INON until we went to Reef in Fort Lauderdale to pick up the KS160 strobes I had already purchased.

Have you looked at the KS160? I was also looking at Isottas lights too, but they are quite expensive, but I think I'll try those next, hopefully they're at DEMA this year and I'll talk to Isotta. Over on Wet Pixel is where I found, counting us, four floods in a short time frame, maybe more data/experience from others could be gleaned over there?

 

[Nemrod]

For the o-rings, no, that is not the case at all, they are supposed to be the same, top and bottom, for the HF-1

We maintain everything to the highest standards, I don't skip maintenance on anything I own, the smallest known issue, or if it doesn't look/feel right, the gear is taken out of service to be inspected further and possibly repaired or "refreshed". I just got the checklist done for the camera equipment on an erasable laminate, so we can go through it each time, ensuring we skip no steps whatsoever, $5 now or $5,000 later ya know? We even have a breakdown on the back of it, we're just like that, checklists,

I have been told INON is a rock solid choice and you're not the only person I've heard say they have thousands of dives on one with absolutely zero issues whatsoever. I may try some out someday, but Kraken seemed to suit what my wife was wanting to do with her camera. I didn't know about INON until we went to Reef in Fort Lauderdale to pick up the KS160 strobes I had already purchased.

Have you looked at the KS160? I was also looking at Isottas lights too, but they are quite expensive, but I think I'll try those next, hopefully they're at DEMA this year and I'll talk to Isotta. Over on Wet Pixel is where I found, counting us, four floods in a short time frame, maybe more data/experience from others could be gleaned over there?

Thanks for the info . Perhaps Backscatter will get to the bottom of this issue because I do believe there is an issue even if it is only that they are supplying randomly the incorrect o-rings. Could be that simple.

The Kraken is a manual only strobe is not it? And it uses a proprietary battery pack. So given that I expect decades of service or at least a decade I doubt the Kraken will still be around or if it is the battery will be something else. I would want a strobe or any sort of that thing to use off the shelf batteries.

I currently have a set of Marelux Apollo S strobes on loan to me. I plan to use them in an upcoming Roatan trip but have used them now in the scuba pool and am quite impressed with them. Very sturdy all aluminum build, controls are easy and intuitive to use and they seem to be quite powerful, with a GN of around 36. They are also not huge and heavy. Of course larger than my little S220 strobes but still for such a powerful set of strobes they are sized well and use off the shelf 18650 cells. And the price is right.

 

[cetacean]

@icouldcarelessbutdont

The Kraken strobes are okay - however the HF-1 is a significantly higher quality strobe given the power and quality of light output.

There are a lot of reasons to pick a certain strobe, but the case it comes in is not an actual reason for most underwater photographers.

To each their own - instead of talking to other local photographers, start looking at what the pros are shooting with. The HF-1 is starting to be used by more and more of these shooters (esp. in places like Galapagos,where the extra power can make a significant difference).

 

[icouldcarelessbutdont]

Thanks for the info . Perhaps Backscatter will get to the bottom of this issue because I do believe there is an issue even if it is only that they are supplying randomly the incorrect o-rings. Could be that simple.

It's electronic and optical, but if you're asking if it's TTL, I can't confirm right now, she doesn't use TTL.

The Kraken is a manual only strobe is not it? And it uses a proprietary battery pack. So given that I expect decades of service or at least a decade I doubt the Kraken will still be around or if it is the battery will be something else. I would want a strobe or any sort of that thing to use off the shelf batteries.

I currently have a set of Marelux Apollo S strobes on loan to me. I plan to use them in an upcoming Roatan trip but have used them now in the scuba pool and am quite impressed with them. Very sturdy all aluminum build, controls are easy and intuitive to use and they seem to be quite powerful, with a GN of around 36. They are also not huge and heavy. Of course larger than my little S220 strobes but still for such a powerful set of strobes they are sized well and use off the shelf 18650 cells. And the price is right.

Given the communication with Backscatter, I wouldn't hold my breath on a failure analysis, ever.

I did weigh on the battery pack, but Kraken isn't an overnight company or new to this industry, I'm sure they'll have service life for these for a long time. This was also the other reason I want to look at Isotta strobes, since they recommended Eneloop Pro AA batteries, so if you're looking for a true open standard and be able to buy batteries anywhere, that's a great option because not everyone sells the 21700 battery, especially in Curacao.

 

[icouldcarelessbutdont]

.....

 

[Nemrod]

Maybe my need for gear to last decades has run it's course and should no longer be a primary consideration. As has been pointed out to me by an older diver friend, now at 71, if my Inon S220 strobes last me as long as my former Inon D2000 strobes I will be like 94 yo. I need a powerful set of strobes to supplement them for reef scenes, CFWA, large animals and sun balls.

Not sure I can agree that the HF-1 is more quality than a Kraken, I have at least held a Kraken in hand and it looked like a quality piece. I think it pretty important that the battery compartment not fill with water and there are quite a few reports of the HF-1 doing exactly that.

There are several new strobes in the HF1 power class from Marelux, AOI, UWT, Issota.

The Kraken battery pack is $170. I would not go on a trip without a spare set of battery packs. And that bumps the price of the Kraken considerably.

If freaking Inon would ever release their alleged Z335, I could just settle for that, GN33, 140 degree light beam native, small, light, reliable and uses AA batteries.

 

[davehicks]

I seem to recall another very similar long and convoluted thread about a flooded Retra strobe. That poster was very upset too. However, everyone would agree that Retra has well designed and high-quality products.

But the truth is that devices with o-rings going into a harsh, high-pressure environment are subject to failures. Careful attention to detail from the user is not always proof against failure. Users can even cause problems by being too attentive. I've seen a number of divers go nuts on their o-rings with lubrication and stretching them like taffy as they grease them up.

I had a failure with one of my two HF-1 strobes which flooded the battery compartment. The strobe itself was not damaged at all and still works. I've completed about 155 dives on 2 HF-1's since July 2024. That is about 300 dives total for the two strobes. 1 non-fatal leak out of 300 dives. I lost a pair of batteries but that is a pretty minor loss.

My response is to start including my strobes in my January refresh cycle. New o-rings every January 1st. I am diving these strobes over 150 times a year, probably opening and closing the battery compartment at least 75-100 times in the span. They merit a yearly refresh.

PS: I have had battery compartment floods with an Ikelite DS-125, DS-51, and Inon 330, and multiple dive lights. Unlike the HF-1, none of those devices survived the flood. Go ahead and use your gear, but don't expect a Zero failure rate. If you can't afford to lose any one item on a trip, bring a spare.

 

[davehicks]

I measured all 8 o-rings from my early model HF-1. (it comes with a spare pair) They all seem to be about 1.91mm thickness. That includes the one pair that leaked and all others. I don't see any inconsistency.

I am about to order two more pairs for spares. I will measure them once received.

 

[icouldcarelessbutdont]

I seem to recall another very similar long and convoluted thread about a flooded Retra strobe. That poster was very upset too. However, everyone would agree that Retra has well designed and high-quality products.

But the truth is that devices with o-rings going into a harsh, high-pressure environment are subject to failures. Careful attention to detail from the user is not always proof against failure. Users can even cause problems by being too attentive. I've seen a number of divers go nuts on their o-rings with lubrication and stretching them like taffy as they grease them up.

I had a failure with one of my two HF-1 strobes which flooded the battery compartment. The strobe itself was not damaged at all and still works. I've completed about 155 dives on 2 HF-1's since July 2024. That is about 300 dives total for the two strobes. 1 non-fatal leak out of 300 dives. I lost a pair of batteries but that is a pretty minor loss.

My response is to start including my strobes in my January refresh cycle. New o-rings every January 1st. I am diving these strobes over 150 times a year, probably opening and closing the battery compartment at least 75-100 times in the span. They merit a yearly refresh.

PS: I have had battery compartment floods with an Ikelite DS-125, DS-51, and Inon 330, and multiple dive lights. Unlike the HF-1, none of those devices survived the flood. Go ahead and use your gear, but don't expect a Zero failure rate. If you can't afford to lose any one item on a trip, bring a spare.

I'll say it again, failing under 10 dives is a problem, regardless of the manufacturer and then the company being dismissive about it makes it worse. Things can fail, yes (you're going to earn the title of Captain obvious here if you keep saying it) you do orings once a year I do similar but sometimes will just change them out beforehand too, especially if we're going in a trip so I usually change orings two times a year on equipment requiring them, a few dollars is meaningless to me in the face of saving thousands.

I'll round out again saying it's not typical for something to fail so soon and then a company be entirely dismissive of it, terrible customer support is what drives customers away faster than garbage products.