Divemasters/Resorts making you flood and clear?

[jd950]

Whoa, guys...the "consensus" I referred to was that most of the responses to my post seemed to think my issue was no big deal, and I felt that maybe I needed to rethink my position.

I wasn't quoting any "BS polls" or polls of any sort. Is there a poll here? There are no black helicopters circling, stand at ease, boys.

I also was not PADI bashing...if anything I am expressing my irritation that OTHERS have so little faith in my PADI certification. I am the one that said I should be presumed competent due to my cert, or did you not even read my posts before jumping on me?

I also am not asking any DM to babysit me, although if I needed help with something I like to think I could ask. I would also like to think that a DM would be sensitive to such issues by a paying client, just as if I was concerned about losing a contact lens or if my wetsuit was suitable for the temperature or some other comfort issue. I suppose there are enough scuba jocks out there that I shouldn't assume that, but I dive for enjoyment, not to prove my manhood. I would like to think a DM would care about the comfort of his clients.

I WAS questioning why a DM would need to "test" a certified diver, and half-jokingly suggested that what was good for the goose is good for the gander (Note: that is a metaphor, there are no real geese or ganders involved in this subject), since the DM ceritification comes from the same agencies as the other certs. Sort of like "if they don't trust my cert why should I trust theirs?" Although if you actually read my posts, you'll see that I accepted a legitimate need to evaluate divers under their control when that was brought up by oly5050.

Perhaps some people shouldn't be divemasters regardless of their diving skill? Is there any sort of test for reasonableness, maturity, personality or customer service skills, or is it just diving ability?

I also NEVER said I had a problem with clearing a mask or an inability to clear a mask or that I would object to doing so. In fact I think I have repeated that several times. Perhaps I should type more slowly? What I said was that I had a problem using my paid dive to demonstrate skills to someone who was not training me and to take time to watch a dozen others do the same. Oh, and who probably isn't qualified to instruct, either. If that makes you "suspicious" of me, so be it, but get a grip; I'm not trying to convince someone to let me do neurosurgery or fly an F-16, just go diving with the pretty fishies. It this kind of mentality that I was asking about..."sorry, dude, you just aren't man enough to dive on my boat."

I said earlier that its not like I go blind, its just not fun to dive with my eyes burning. Obviously I can do it or I wouldn't be certified. If you think me not wanting to screw up half a dive I flew a thousand miles and spent hundreds of dollars to take due to unecessarily irritated eyes makes me unfit to dive or means I have "serious difficulties" with my eyes then I don't know what to say; we are just in different worlds. You need to get some compassion.

Oh, and thanks for the "intelligent conversation" comment.

 

[fisherdvm]

Whoa, guys...the "consensus" I referred to was that most of the responses to my post seemed to think my issue was no big deal, and I felt that maybe I needed to rethink my position.

I also was not PADI bashing...if anything I am expressing my irritation that OTHERS have so little faith in my PADI certification. I am the one that said I should be presumed competent due to my cert, or did you not even read my posts before jumping on me?

.

You can learn alot, alot, alot from these bunches here. I would suggest that you relax, take a deep breath, and not worry about the discussion that goes about any new threads. It is not anything personal about you... It is a forum for us to dive where there is no water.

This might actually take off as another "bash PADI" party... but there is alot of truth in not trusting a C card.

A diver who earned his C card and dives only 1 or 2 times a year, is unlikely to maintain his skill. With increasing liability, and more JD's willing to sue than there are divemasters and diveinstructors, I can not blame any dive shop, dive boats, or resorts from performing minimal skill evaluations.

 

[timle]

Since the consensus is that PADI certification standards are too low ...

the "consensus" I referred to was that most of the responses to my post seemed to think

That "consensus" simply suggested this wasn't a big deal (mask and reg check), it had nothing to do with PADI certification standards as you suggest. I believe the biggest reason for these checks are vacation divers who dive once maybe twice a year. They may have passed their OW with flying colors a year ago and did a few dives after that, then they haven't dove for almost a year.

I too would be suspicious about someone not wanting to clear their mask. It has nothing to do with you personally. Most of us have been subjected to people diving well above and beyond their training and are cautious when someone claims to be completely capable of something but unwilling to demonstrate.

If I was counting on the DM to do anything besides watch me get in and out of the water I would want to know whether he was competent. Personally I don't like DM led group dives that reduce the dive to the lowest common denominator, so I tend to avoid them.

Its a public discussion forum - some people are going to disagree and express their viewpoints in your thread - thats what makes the site work. Consider some people "diving with the pretty fishies" die, pardon those of us who take it quiet seriously. This is coming from someone who wants to be completely left alone and dive his own profile and not be led by a DM, which is my right to find an operator who will deliver, but its also within their right to enforce checkout dives.

 

[Prostar]

My instructor was asked to do a mask removal/replace & clear while on vacation in Jamaica. They asked everyone to do it in a pool. He tried to protest a bit to no avail.

In he hops, drops down and slides the mask off. Next he turned away from the DM, donned the mask and turned around. The DM saw that he had put it on upside down, the strap cinched up real tight and was perfectly cleared.

DM flipped him the bird and said OK.

 

[neil]

... but there is alot of truth in not trusting a C card.

A diver who earned his C card and dives only 1 or 2 times a year, is unlikely to maintain his skill. With increasing liability, and more JD's willing to sue than there are divemasters and diveinstructors, I can not blame any dive shop, dive boats, or resorts from performing minimal skill evaluations.

I agree.
I was once shown a film by Andrea Zaferes, a well-know East Coast instructor. It showed divers performing 3 skills in the tank at Unexso: mask removal, hover and reg recovery. This was required before you could dive there. It was AMAZING to see diver after diver fail to perform one or more of these 3 basic skills, which arguably are essential for your own safety and that of the reef. I would willingly show the dive op that I am competent and then get on with the diving.

 

[Colliam7]

I read a comment in another thread that at Anthony's Key Resort they will make you jump in, flood or remove mask and clear it before letting you dive. Is this common? Anyone else have a problem with this? ... The other thing, although less important, is that if I am certified, and haven't given someone reason to distrust my abilities, and I'm not trying to do something questionable without supervision/training?

Can certainly apprerciate your comment, but it seems to be a common practice among Roatan operators in particular. You find it at Anthony's Key, Herman mentions CocoView. The same was true at Bay Islands Resort when I dove there several years ago.
Other Caribbean locales are different. On Bonaire, Buddy Dive asks that you do a self-supervised local, shallow dive (in front of the resort) before going off around the island.
It is probably not so much a matter of 'distrust' of individual divers as an attempt at protection of the operator from a bad image associated with diver accidents, or unhappy clients who have a problem and say the resort didn't give them any 'guidance'. Certainly, resorts end up being exposed to a broad range of diver skills, and doing something as simple as a mask flood and clear may be a way to 'sample' diver skills, to identify potential problems before someone has a more serious issue in the middle of their vacation week, freaking out in Spooky Channel after their mask gets knocked off by the diver in front of them. Does making you flood and clear your mask have any material impact on your safety? Who knows? It is what it is on Roatan.

 

[fairybasslet]

CCV does their checkout dive in the morning of your first day there. After that, they pretty much leave you alone to dive as you please.

My biggest complaint about this "system" is that it doesn't always take into account flight schedules. We arrived at CCV as that day's batch of divers were doing their checkout dive ... therefore we were not permitted to dive until the next day. Basically, we "wasted" a day of our vacation before being allowed to dive. That didn't sit too well with me ... but the 5 or 6 dives I got in every other day I was there made up for it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That happened to us too. We got there in the afternoon and had to wait until the next morning's briefing. But there was one obnoxious, pompous guy who put up such a fuss that they let him shore dive that afternoon anyway.

 

[Ice9]

When you're getting 25-40 dives in during the week (especially with all the shore diving)... a fraction of a dive to demo skills "ain't nothing but a thang"...

...bring it on... it's a great idea!

When you put it that way, I can dig it! Plus, if its just in 10ft of water at the dock, thats cool too - won't mess with my actual dives. BTW, I totally agree that this is a good practice. I've seen some folks (recently) that seem to have forgotten all basic OW skills. That frightens me.

 

[ClayJar]

I would be somewhat less than content if such a skills quiz were to be foisted on me during a "real" dive, but I'd understand, and I'd be perfectly fine with such a test if it were not during a "real" dive. I know too many scary people with cards.

In he hops, drops down and slides the mask off. Next he turned away from the DM, donned the mask and turned around. The DM saw that he had put it on upside down, the strap cinched up real tight and was perfectly cleared.

I think I've just found my next skill to work on in the pool... as soon as I get my regs back from service. (I'm desiccating! I'm desiccating!)

 

[kawasakign]

My instructor was asked to do a mask removal/replace & clear while on vacation in Jamaica. They asked everyone to do it in a pool. He tried to protest a bit to no avail.

In he hops, drops down and slides the mask off. Next he turned away from the DM, donned the mask and turned around. The DM saw that he had put it on upside down, the strap cinched up real tight and was perfectly cleared.

DM flipped him the bird and said OK.

Now that is classic!! Got to love the underwater communication