SteveFass
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AKR - Anthony's Key Resort
Divemasters/Resorts making you flood and clear?
- Thread starter jd950
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OP
jd950
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Well, I was in near the end of this really comprehensive response to some comments when I somehow hit page back or something and lost it all. So here's the shorter version:
I was not saying I was uncomfortable doing mask clearing or other skills. I can clear my mask in one breath. Heck, I can probably do it a couple times or so on one breath. My mask leaks when I smile and because of my moustache. It's no big deal...I clear it when it starts to bother me and use the small amount of water to help eliminate fogging until then. I don't need a different mask (although I continue to look for masks that leak less, it's kind of a grail quest) and I think my clearing technique works fine. My comments were directed at my objection to using dive time and equipment rentals and air that I paid for to prove I could do basic skills that are within my certification and having to do a mask clear at the beginning of a dive and therefore compromise my enjoyment of the dive do to stinging eyes.
I have no issues to take up with my instructor, but thanks for asking.
I have sensitive eyes. I grew up swimming and snorkeling in seawater and never got over the water causing burning and itching. Its not like they explode or I go blind or something...I just prefer it when they aren't burning. I learned a long time ago to avoid sunscreen on my face while diving and each time I forget I get reminded. In clear water it's no problem, but chlorine and seawater bother them. I have bushy eyebrows and I think when I flood and clear, water will continue to trickle into my eyes for awhile, causing me to suffer for 15 minutes or more. I dive to look at and photograph the pretty fishies and if the first third of one of my dives is spent squinting through teary eyes, I'm not having fun. I am not going to shave my eyebrows. Also, I want to perfect my buoyancy, and to the extent that I spend part of a dive on a skill, that is where I want to spend most of my time right now. Doing anything else when your eyes feel like someone is rubbing salt in them is just a pain.
If I am using their air, their equipment and their time and not losing or compromising one of the limited number of dives I will have at some faraway location then I am less concerned. I don't even care if I have to flood and clear in seawater as long as it is some sort of checkout dive or at the end of a dive. If I can dry them or pour fresh water on my face, like on the boat, the burning goes away within a couple of minutes.
The same is true for fin pivots and hovers. What I will resent is if I have to spend a big chunk of my first, and probably deepest or longest dive, doing mask flooding, fin pivots and the other stuff I had to do for my certification. I understand not wanting divers crashing into the reef. Frankly, I don't think fin pivots even tell you that much about actual buoyancy ability while moving around the reef, and making me do a fin pivot is largely pointless. Hovering would be better.
The other thing is that it saddens me that certification means so little. If I am certified, I should be presumed competent at the required skills for that certification until I give someone reason to doubt me. I realize it may not be that way, but that's how it should be.
If safety is the issue, perhaps air mangement and equalizing should be more of a concern. In my limited time at this it seems to me that inexperienced divers are more likely to have trouble equalizing, have a reverse squeze, be unable to get their weighting right and risk a rapid ascent or run low on air than have a crisis with a mask flood or regulator retrieval issue. But many of you would know more about thius than do I.
On my OW certification dives one woman on the boat had an air bubble under a crown cause huge pain while ascending and another guy had a high pressure hose burst while still on the boat. Some rescue-certified diver swallowed too much water in the swells at the surface and got sick and one person got seasick on the way out and vomited into her reg while descending. No one flooded their mask unintentionally and no one lost their regulator. If we were at one of these "gotta flood and clear your mask" resorts none of this would have been covered anyway.
Finally, what happens if you get to Roatan or Bonaire or wherever and go out in their rental BC and have trouble with buoyancy because you are not used to the gear. Do they ban you from diving? Do you have to keep working on buoyancy until you meet their standards? Do they take you to the pool and work with you or take you to sandy spot to practice? I think this should be disclosed upfront if that is the case. I would be pissed to spend the money and be unable to dive.
Please....I am not saying that I'm worried about this, and don't need a lecture about the value of buoyancy proficiency and practicing basic skills. I am actually pretty happy with my buoyancy now and keep getting better. I already agreed it was good to do practice skills, but that isn't likely to be how I want to spend my limited number of dives in Fiji.
So other than Roatan and Mike Ball, is this a common theme?
I was not saying I was uncomfortable doing mask clearing or other skills. I can clear my mask in one breath. Heck, I can probably do it a couple times or so on one breath. My mask leaks when I smile and because of my moustache. It's no big deal...I clear it when it starts to bother me and use the small amount of water to help eliminate fogging until then. I don't need a different mask (although I continue to look for masks that leak less, it's kind of a grail quest) and I think my clearing technique works fine. My comments were directed at my objection to using dive time and equipment rentals and air that I paid for to prove I could do basic skills that are within my certification and having to do a mask clear at the beginning of a dive and therefore compromise my enjoyment of the dive do to stinging eyes.
I have no issues to take up with my instructor, but thanks for asking.
I have sensitive eyes. I grew up swimming and snorkeling in seawater and never got over the water causing burning and itching. Its not like they explode or I go blind or something...I just prefer it when they aren't burning. I learned a long time ago to avoid sunscreen on my face while diving and each time I forget I get reminded. In clear water it's no problem, but chlorine and seawater bother them. I have bushy eyebrows and I think when I flood and clear, water will continue to trickle into my eyes for awhile, causing me to suffer for 15 minutes or more. I dive to look at and photograph the pretty fishies and if the first third of one of my dives is spent squinting through teary eyes, I'm not having fun. I am not going to shave my eyebrows. Also, I want to perfect my buoyancy, and to the extent that I spend part of a dive on a skill, that is where I want to spend most of my time right now. Doing anything else when your eyes feel like someone is rubbing salt in them is just a pain.
If I am using their air, their equipment and their time and not losing or compromising one of the limited number of dives I will have at some faraway location then I am less concerned. I don't even care if I have to flood and clear in seawater as long as it is some sort of checkout dive or at the end of a dive. If I can dry them or pour fresh water on my face, like on the boat, the burning goes away within a couple of minutes.
The same is true for fin pivots and hovers. What I will resent is if I have to spend a big chunk of my first, and probably deepest or longest dive, doing mask flooding, fin pivots and the other stuff I had to do for my certification. I understand not wanting divers crashing into the reef. Frankly, I don't think fin pivots even tell you that much about actual buoyancy ability while moving around the reef, and making me do a fin pivot is largely pointless. Hovering would be better.
The other thing is that it saddens me that certification means so little. If I am certified, I should be presumed competent at the required skills for that certification until I give someone reason to doubt me. I realize it may not be that way, but that's how it should be.
If safety is the issue, perhaps air mangement and equalizing should be more of a concern. In my limited time at this it seems to me that inexperienced divers are more likely to have trouble equalizing, have a reverse squeze, be unable to get their weighting right and risk a rapid ascent or run low on air than have a crisis with a mask flood or regulator retrieval issue. But many of you would know more about thius than do I.
On my OW certification dives one woman on the boat had an air bubble under a crown cause huge pain while ascending and another guy had a high pressure hose burst while still on the boat. Some rescue-certified diver swallowed too much water in the swells at the surface and got sick and one person got seasick on the way out and vomited into her reg while descending. No one flooded their mask unintentionally and no one lost their regulator. If we were at one of these "gotta flood and clear your mask" resorts none of this would have been covered anyway.
Finally, what happens if you get to Roatan or Bonaire or wherever and go out in their rental BC and have trouble with buoyancy because you are not used to the gear. Do they ban you from diving? Do you have to keep working on buoyancy until you meet their standards? Do they take you to the pool and work with you or take you to sandy spot to practice? I think this should be disclosed upfront if that is the case. I would be pissed to spend the money and be unable to dive.
Please....I am not saying that I'm worried about this, and don't need a lecture about the value of buoyancy proficiency and practicing basic skills. I am actually pretty happy with my buoyancy now and keep getting better. I already agreed it was good to do practice skills, but that isn't likely to be how I want to spend my limited number of dives in Fiji.
So other than Roatan and Mike Ball, is this a common theme?
OP
jd950
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Docmartin:
I feel your pain. I am told some of the kid friendly sunscreens like Blue Lizard Sensitive and the "all natural-no chemical" sunscreens like Mexitan help. I haven't tried them but thought I would pass along the information. I just avoid sunscreen on my face and wear a hat when I am diving. Good luck.
I feel your pain. I am told some of the kid friendly sunscreens like Blue Lizard Sensitive and the "all natural-no chemical" sunscreens like Mexitan help. I haven't tried them but thought I would pass along the information. I just avoid sunscreen on my face and wear a hat when I am diving. Good luck.
I'm all for being left alone and doing the dives I want to do. In this case I don't see it as a big deal - hop in clear mask and exchange reg, if you are good - go on your way - if not they are probably doing you a favor. Bottom line, its a business and they are free to run it as they see fit. If you don't like it, vote with your dollars.
ronbeau
Contributor
Ice9:
Anthony's Key Resort om Honduras.
wb416
Contributor
NWGratefulDiver:At CocoView the DM asked me to do a mask flood and clear while kneeling. When I did a remove and replace while hovering (in 3 feet of water), he asked me to kneel on the bottom and do it over again. I asked him why and he said he wanted to check my weighting ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Must depend upon who's leading your orientation. Penny and I did our mask clear and reg share hovering last May at CCV and they didn't say boo about it.
wb416
Contributor
When you're getting 25-40 dives in during the week (especially with all the shore diving)... a fraction of a dive to demo skills "ain't nothing but a thang"...Ice9:
...bring it on... it's a great idea!
wb416
Contributor
NWGratefulDiver:
Ya know... I think that was the only small gripe I had about CCV... but pretty minor and a good day to hydrate and relax... not stopping me from going back for two weeks this year!! 45 more days!!
Rogue_Diver
Contributor
I have been to AKR four times, and am going back again in August. Each time I have had to clear my flooded mask and retrieve my regulator in 10 feet of water off the back of the boat at the dock. This 15 minute session does a couple things which are important to everyone on the boat. 1. gives you an opportunity to get your weights right. 2. gives the DM a quick introduction to your diving skills. When you have the right amount of weight your first dive in open water will likely be a good one. When the DM knows your skills he will be attached to you like glue, or not, based on what he has learned. I know they did not follow me too closely during my dives spent with them, but some other divers who were struggling got what they needed. All in all I think its a good practice, and AKR is a good outfit with a set of DM's that are helpful and safe.
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