DiveMaster/LDS conflict

[Ceberon]

FYI, as having taken my OW & AOW at the same shop, I knew even before finishing my OW that if I was going to be a professional at the shop, I would need to wear their gear for any assistance with the students. They certainly do not disguise this fact

Also, yes, Jason does own the correct set of gear, they're not asking him to buy a new set, they're asking him to wear a set of gear he has.

Otherwise, I won't argue any more, some other people here are much better at it than me. I really like the tax information example.

Oh, to the programmer who never finished college and owns a multi million dollar business. Congratulations, I'm impressed. I'm talking about averages though. There's a good chance I could teach one of my sisters to be a great diver, I have all the books, I have the basic ideas of how to teach. Perhaps just having me teach would be good enough, and they'd rock at diving.

However, most programmers who do not finish college, who just learn on their own (I learned quite a lot on my own), have very bad habits. They may be able to turn out code, but it often is hellish to maintain, or poorly designed so that it is hard to add more later. I believe a college experience (at least mine) helps teach the proper way of being a team player.

In the same way, I believe that proper teaching for using scuba equipment is important, not only for yourself, but for your buddy. I do not want a buddy who never had it explained exactly why he needs to keep his alternate in the triangle..

 

[Dryglove]

Diver0001 once bubbled...


Good heavens! I think we found someone to rival even the great Genesis in his cynicism. Personally I think being a DM is the best thing in the world unless you wnat to be paid for it. If you want money, go work at McDonalds. If you want to make a real difference in the skills of new students become a DM.

A good DM will teach everything that's missing in the system. "My" students--and yes I am *required* to take *personal* responsibility for *my* students. Learn from me everything that the PADI book doesn't mandate.

Well isnt someone on their "divemaster high horse" right now. Divemasters are the ones who turned off my air 3 times before jumping in. I no longer allow dive masters to touch my tank valves or my gear. Divemasters are the ones who constantly turn off my isolator valve on my doubles for some unknown reason. Granted there are good and bad DM's. If they dont know what they are doing they need to keep their hands off of peoples gear. A lot of them have the "i am a god attitude" and then proceed to turn your air off before you jump in.

A divemasters job is to make money for the shop they work for by being a walking billboard for that shop. You help students and help even more by wearing the gear that shop sells. You pay a lot of money for the class and insurance and get very little in return excpet for the satisfaction of teaching a student. If you are so proud of being "used" then so be it.

I checked into a DM course and found it to be a joke. I wouldnt be allowed to wear my gear. I decided right then and there ill venture more towards the technical side and skip any type of diving leadership programs as it doesnt suit me. You enjoy kneeling on the bottom on your knees teaching skills while i go learn something worthwhile.

 

[Ceberon]

Well, your point is a little lost if you're saying that you're not really interested in helping out students. If I pay to become a divemaster, pay to get air fills, and then have to wear certain gear the diveshop wears, then you know what, that sounds like fun to me. I'd rather be helping out students than cruising around diving on my own.

To each their own, just don't go putting down someone else's interest.. ".You enjoy kneeling on the bottom on your knees teaching skills while i go learn something worthwhile.".

I certainly believe teaching is worthwhile.

 

[Atticus]

Divemasters are the ones who turned off my air 3 times before jumping in. I no longer allow dive masters to touch my tank valves or my gear. Divemasters are the ones who constantly turn off my isolator valve on my doubles for some unknown reason.

You actually let DM's touch your doubles? *giggle*

I had one try to hook a boat fill whip up to mine a couple months ago. Hmm.. Dirty boat air... O2 cleaned tanks that I do PP blending in... *sigh*

Then there was the shop owner I asked about getting my doubles filled with OCA. His response was "Sure, if we can isolate during the fill". I can't even guess what his logic was. Needless to say, I passed.

 

[Atticus]

Ceberon once bubbled...
I certainly believe teaching is worthwhile. [/B]

Ceberon, this may be the first thing we agree on!

(Just another self educated, large company, team player, successful software engineer)

 

[Dryglove]

Ceberon once bubbled...
Well, your point is a little lost if you're saying that you're not really interested in helping out students. If I pay to become a divemaster, pay to get air fills, and then have to wear certain gear the diveshop wears, then you know what, that sounds like fun to me. I'd rather be helping out students than cruising around diving on my own.

To each their own, just don't go putting down someone else's interest.. ".You enjoy kneeling on the bottom on your knees teaching skills while i go learn something worthwhile.".

I certainly believe teaching is worthwhile.

At the time i did want to help with students. But after hearing the sales pitch i said no way. Its not about the students but promoting for the dive shop. You have to wear their gear they sell and dont want the student exposed to anything else.

My biggest problem is DM's like Diver0001 who think they are a god to diving. Maybe he is all that but i have run across few who are but yet they all put themselves on a pedastool(sp?) above all others. I definitely dont think i am all that and am all for learning but for goodness sakes leave my tank valves alone.

 

[Ceberon]

But now you're talking about stupid DM's. I would be upset if anyone touched my gear without asking. Heck, the instructors that taught me would ask first before fixing anything on my setup, even in OW. I think it was very polite, because often I wanted to fix it myself (gotta learn someday).

I don't think you should knock the idea of joining a profession (or someone else joining it), just because there are some bad eggs.

 

[Dryglove]

Ceberon once bubbled...
But now you're talking about stupid DM's. I would be upset if anyone touched my gear without asking. Heck, the instructors that taught me would ask first before fixing anything on my setup, even in OW. I think it was very polite, because often I wanted to fix it myself (gotta learn someday).

I don't think you should knock the idea of joining a profession (or someone else joining it), just because there are some bad eggs.

Thats not the point im trying to make. I really wanted to work with students and take a jr leadership course. They give you the big spill about working with students ,being part of the dive professionals, secret handshakes and all that hoopla.

But in the next breath its all about promoting gear sales for that particular shop which is why they want you to wear the gear they sell. To me thats like saying your gear is crap and dont wear it here. I am happy with my current gear and would not wear anything else. For that reason i will be excluded from the majority of jr leadership classes sponsered through a LDS.

Bottom line is that for most shops its not about the students but for gear sales. Thats what turned me off from any leadership courses. Students are just a number while gears sales is where the profit is. Of course independent DM's dont have to put up with all this or do they.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

lal7176 once bubbled...
Of course independent DM's dont have to put up with all this or do they.

What does an independent DM do, have a full time job and lead orientation dives?

If it wasn't for the classes what would be the fun in that, it certainly doesn't pay anything near McDonalds. and while leading divers around somewhere new to them might be fun it's hit or miss seasonal work at best.

I'm not following this aversion to the "LDS gear" why hang with this LDS if they don't sell the gear you want. I think the original point of the Hog rig vs. "rec rig" (per instructor's argument) is one thing, but I buy gear from my shop, that's why it's my shop. Taking the DM course and working with students wasn't an issue as it's the shop lines of gear and the owner/my instructor that turned me on about the place.

If he sold crap bcs and regs and wanted me to wear it in front of students, I'd do it if he provided or I owned as backups. But if he sold crap I'd be associated with a different shop I think, so it's a non-issue.

 

[Diver0001]

lal7176 once bubbled...


<snip>

A divemasters job is to make money for the shop they work for by being a walking billboard for that shop.

<snip>

LOL

And an instructor's job is to stamp C-cards and railroad students through pointless courses to create fodder for the dive-industry. Right?

R..