Dive Xtra Blacktip longevity vs. SUEX

[macado]

Minor correction from above but the newer DeWalt packs (FlexVolt 9Ah and 12Ah) are not using 18650 cells anymore. They're using 21700 cells (21mm x 70mm). This is the "newer" cell format that was developed together with Tesla and Panasonic. There is also the 20700 (20mm x 70mm) format to make things more confusing. The Tesla cell is 1mm longer. I'm sure what the smaller DeWalt packs are currently using.

This post here explains it a little better than me:
New Dewalt 20V Max 8.0Ah Cordless Power Tool Battery

The DeWalt packs are using 5S3P (15 21700 cells, 5 cells in a series, 3 series in the set.

60v FLEXVOLT 9Ah: 21700 35A Samsung 30T @ 15 cells
60v FLEXVOLT 12Ah: 21700 30A Samsung 40T @ 15 cells

 

[RainPilot]

Anecdotal but...

I have 2x VRX, one of them had a cell issue in the pack after 2 dives, as well as a weird "motherboard needs upgrade" message on the app. Well under warranty, Suex wanted me to send the whole thing back to Italy for warranty work (shipping a lithium battery both ways, anyone?) and then they would repair, shipping on my account. I have finally gotten them to allow the service agent here to actually do the repair since they have strict "levels" of service tech. The DPV itself is very nice and does what I want it to, but it's a lot noisier than the Blacktip and only has 2 speeds so matching with other models is trickier.

My Blacktip is ordered and standing by for shipping.

 

[geoff w]

Blacktip owner here, my first DPV, but I've used Suex and Subgravity DPVs previously (and Seadoos,but those don't count). Mine was a relatively early Blacktip, I had an issue with the trigger switch, shipped it back to Dive-X, and had it back in short order. No problems since, and a little over 20 dives on it. It definitely opens up many new dive spots from shore

Blacktip opinion seems to be split even between the travel is fine, even though it naturally trims out nose up if not moving, and the other half of people can't use it because it doesn't trim out perfectly horizontal. Personally, I haven't found it to be an issue and would rather have it be 5 lbs lighter to carry across a soft sand beach

One factor to consider which has become very apparent is that having a DPV is kind of meaningless unless you have one or more buddies, also with DPVs, to go out and dive with. The Blacktip can easily tow three recreational divers, but it's not nearly as much fun. You're probably more likely to find buddies with a Blacktip than just about anything else, as DIve-X is selling them as fast as they can make them

Dive-X's online support forum is through a Facebook group. There are lots of guys with old Cudas and Sierras there that love them, the only downside being old batteries. Several different lithium battery upgrade options are available, so the older Cudas and Sierras seem to keep going and going, and have a cult-like following. In some ways, the old Dive-X scooters remind me of the way people think about old aircooled Porsche 911s - they're not the most modern, but they keep running and provide lots of fun

One friend is a big time GUE instructor, and he pushes Suex big time. His main argument is the reed switch Dive-X uses. Like others have said GUE favors Suex. Like everything else, GUE divers need to use GUE approved equipment, and Suex seems to check that box. But then again, GUE's DPV class is at least 2-3 days. You don't need to overthink it, and for the price, if you get a Blacktip and don't like it, you shouldn't have any trouble selling it

 

[rjack321]

One friend is a big time GUE instructor, and he pushes Suex big time. His main argument is the reed switch Dive-X uses. Like others have said GUE favors Suex. Like everything else, GUE divers need to use GUE approved equipment, and Suex seems to check that box. But then again, GUE's DPV class is at least 2-3 days. You don't need to overthink it, and for the price, if you get a Blacktip and don't like it, you shouldn't have any trouble selling it

Lol GUE instructor complaining about reed switches. He must be new to the clique. The Gavin reed switch (and most everything else about the Gavin including the magnets, the relay, and the motor brushes) was "primitive" at best. Yet Gavin's persisted as the go to GUE scooter for 10 years after they were obsolete. The DiveX Sierra and Cuda(s) have stood the test of time as reliable even if many of their design attributes are dated compared to newer (and pricier) offerings. The Blacktips seem pretty finicky but maybe I just see all the complaints on FB

 

[Miyaru]

...
My Blacktip is ordered and standing by for shipping.

And mine?

 

[geoff w]

... The Blacktips seem pretty finicky but maybe I just see all the complaints on FB

Probably a combination of early model teething problems and people are more likely to voice problem complaints than to say everything is working fine. Internally Blacktips are pretty simple, so once the last few remaining glitches are worked out they should be really bulletproof. And for the price / performance, there's nothing particularly expensive that can break that can't be easily fixed. Nothing finicky about Blacktips in normal operation (unless you're in the 50% who can't deal with less than perfect DPV trim with neutral buoyancy), but I've known a few who have had a problem (myself included). Dive-X being US based are undoubtedly more responsive for repairs than having to ship a Suex back to Italy for warranty work

 

[rjack321]

Probably a combination of early model teething problems and people are more likely to voice problem complaints than to say everything is working fine. Internally Blacktips are pretty simple, so once the last few remaining glitches are worked out they should be really bulletproof. And for the price / performance, there's nothing particularly expensive that can break that can't be easily fixed. Nothing finicky about Blacktips in normal operation (unless you're in the 50% who can't deal with less than perfect DPV trim with neutral buoyancy), but I've known a few who have had a problem (myself included). Dive-X being US based are undoubtedly more responsive for repairs than having to ship a Suex back to Italy for warranty work

The water sensor glitches, the software not sensing the prop position correctly, and the requirement to rollback to a previous firmware version seem like pretty pervasive issues to me. But like you said, it's hard to tell if those are a vocal minority or more widespread.

Asking a Suex owner how their factory repair is going is also ummm "not a fun conversation."

 

[Miyaru]

...
Dive-X being US based are undoubtedly more responsive for repairs than having to ship a Suex back to Italy for warranty work

Yeah, makes one wonder why there are diving manufacturers outside the United States. Or divers.

 

[geoff w]

Yeah, makes one wonder why there are diving manufacturers outside the United States. Or divers.

OP is in US territory, hence closer to the US for factory service, and no need to deal with customs and associated delays. For bigger, well established non-US dive gear manufacturers like Suunto, Mares, Poseidon, etc. with global service that's not a big deal, but smaller DPV manufacturers are harder to get authorized service, and even harder for newer products that don't have much in the way of certified service technicians. A volunteer ocean cleanup organization I dive with that has a number of Suex scooters has lots of trouble getting them serviced locally.

But, hey, this is the US, so makes one wonder why there is even the rest of the world for anything. But that reign of terror should end soon

 

[seahero]

I appreciate everyone's response to my question.
I went ahead and ordered the Blacktip Tech. Very much looking forward to its arrival.