Dive shops and training: the disconnect with reality

[idocsteve]

And Bob, would you please stop swimming around like a Christmas tree?

At the very least..unplug them.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Nope, to each his own. However you'll never hear me say that divers who don't use retractors are "going through a phase".

But they are. As you gain experience you will continue going through phases. I've been through dozens of them over the time I've been diving.

I simply don't see the term as insulting ... unfortunately, I can't say the same about many of the things I hear you say. In fact, you seem to put a great deal of effort into insulting people on ScubaBoard.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[pedo]

I really don't find it insulting as much as I find it to be closeminded, presumptive, and illogical thinking, and when I read posts like yours I shake my head because it's just so typical of the rather thickheaded mindset of so many I come across on the internet and in real life.

When it comes to diving in particular, I guess I feel sorry for "experienced divers" like you who refuse to consider other options because they think of them as a "phase" that is below their level of experience.

You could have your gear neatly stowed in your BCD pocket and yet you swim around like a Christmas tree, but hey, whatever works for you.

This is enormously amusing. I really wish I could find a photograph of Bob in the water, but I can't put my finger on one right at the moment. Bob, as many of us, subscribes to a type of diving that emphasizes streamlining and a clean, uncluttered gear configuration. You won't EVER find him looking like a Christmas tree (except if somebody manages to clip a chicken onto him ).

A lot of us don't like retractors because 1) they're relatively expensive; 2) they can and do jam, gum up or break; 3) with the total length of the two parts and the clip, stuff is still hanging a long way below you; and 4) there's a simpler, more elegant and less expensive solution. But a retractor sure as heck beats letting the stuff hang loose, and it does have the advantage that pulling a console up to look at it with a retractor doesn't really task load students or new divers.

Come to think of it, a lot of us don't like big consoles, either . . .

1. I spend more on air and they make a lovely gift instead of a fruit basket
2. I suppose so, haven't yet but they could but so could a clip
3. tucked under the shoulder strap or pocket, no more dangly than a clip

anyway, quien sabe as they say

 

[Hoomi]

In our culture, "phase" tends to have a negative connotation. A child is doing something strange or difficult, and we refer to it as a "phase he's going through." Someone gets obsessed with something, and goes way overboard about it, and we say they're "going through a phase," usually with a slightly dismissive, condescending tone to our voices.

It's easy, then, to imagine someone else using a similar patronizing voice when referring to retractors as a "phase." We do need to remember that different people, though, may use various terms in different ways than we do, and if we have to assume, why not assume the best of other people's intentions, rather than the worst?

We're individuals. We have different likes and dislikes, and our preferences are going to vary from person to person. I like my dive mask, but you may have tried the same one and hated it. Does it make my mask no longer fit right if you don't like it? Is it a slur on your intelligence that my mask didn't work for you? Not at all, on either count. If you're happy with your dive configuration, and it isn't hurting anyone else or the environment, then who cares if anyone else likes it? They don't have to conform to your configuration, and you don't have to conform to theirs.

The OP made some points about dive shops and what he considered superfluous gear. I'm sorry he had bad experiences with some dive shops, and I respect his opinion regarding gear. I may not agree with his opinion, but I don't need to agree with him to respect that it's his opinion.

I'm still a n00b. I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve, and I suspect that - like many of you - I'll go through phases in my diving where I try out different gear and configurations, until I mostly settle on one that works (with continual new stuff being brought out, and the inevitable entropy, I doubt that I'll ever reach a static configuration that will remain unchanged forevermore thereafter). I glean a lot of information from the more experienced folks here at SB, and I take a lot of that into account before I make my buying decisions.

Except for that one poopy-head. I don't pay any attention to stuff posted by that person.

 

[mongodives]

I must be new, I've never seen anyone look like a Christmas tree while diving. I've seen a few diveops make their DM's look like Rudolf on night dives but Christmas tree never.

The disconnect issue, seen it and don't think its that big of a deal, just change shops.

 

[TSandM]

Mongodives, if you haven't seen somebody look like a Christmas tree loaded with ornaments, you haven't done much diving at the Coves on weekends!

 

[Sas]

You speak about retractors as a "phase" which is an insult to any diver who uses them on a regular basis.

You also provide false logic to support your statement, because you say that "gear on a retractor hangs just as much if not more than alternate methods."

You fail to realize there are other scenarios where using a retractor can be preferrable to a clip, such as in my configuration.

No. There is no situation in which I would find a retractor preferable. It's just my personal preference - I hate them.

My dive light is on a lockable retractor. I use the light intermittently throughout a dive (unless of course it's an night dive). So rather than clipping and unclipping a dozen times or more, I simply...let go of the light...and when I want to pick it up again I make a sweep, and it's right there. The retractor keeps the light fully retracted without being locked unless I'm out of the water. If I don't intend to use the light on a dive, or I don't plan on using it for several minutes, then it's inside my BC pocket, which is more streamlined and "doesn't hang" as it would if it was on a clip.

I see all sorts of issues with this. I have already discussed them in a prior post though so I won't bore you with the details again.

My integrated dive slate and compass is neatly tucked away in my BC pocket as well. When and if I need to use it (rarely), I reach into my pocket and pull it out...and it's on a retractor too. So if I choose to do so, I can either tuck it back in the pocket or simply let go. If it was on a clip, I'd have to clip/unclip and when it is not in use it would be...hanging.

I have a compass on the wrist as I use it frequently. I would find it a pain in the arse to have it on a slate in my pocket. The type of diving I do means this is a poor solution for me.

The third retractor on my gear keeps my BC vent hose close to my chest so it doesn't hang. Velcro attachment is not possible with my BCD. I challenge you to provide a better configuration for a BCD vent hose. Sure you could clip/unclip the BCD vent hose every time you are going to use it, but are you going to tell me that's less effort then simply...lifting the vent hose and then letting it go to retract neatly back against the BCD?

I have mine bicyle tubed to my harness. I just simply lift it up when I want to vent, though I rarely use anything other than the butt dump to vent air.

I've tried both ways, I don't like retractors. But I could care less if other people don't like my gear config. You might find life more relaxing if you were the same.

Basically I don't see why people get uptight here about other people disliking their gear setup. I don't like lots of things in life but it doesn't mean that I think the people who do like them are inferior. There are some setups in diving that I think *are* stupid but they are rare, mostly I just find other setups inefficient or not to my personal tastes.

 

[Chris12day]

Dear All,

I have learned a few things since joining Scubaboard........

1) Write something, someone will flame you. Especially in a "flame free" basic zone.
2) My set-up is the only set-up. If you use something else, you must be stupid. :mooner:
3) No one is right, but me.
4) No one believes that the current status of training is any good, except the trainers?
5) Buyer be ware, except if it is "SpareAir".
6) No threads stay on topic long....

Good Diving........

 

[Sas]

I have no problem with idocsteve's comments. Everyone agreeing is boring.

 

[gcbryan]

Mongodives, if you haven't seen somebody look like a Christmas tree loaded with ornaments, you haven't done much diving at the Coves on weekends!

Actually, when you think about it one man's Christmas tree could be another man's scooter,stage bottle,camera...

We've all carried a lot of stuff underwater at one time or another although we all know the traditional meaning of the Christmas tree comment of course.