Dive buddy for air? No thanks.

[rstofer]

I like my independent doubles with independent regs and spg's. One tank fills my wing and the other fills my drysuit. I have the left reg on a necklace around my neck and the other clipped to a d-ring when not being used. I dive this way with or without buddies. If I have a freeflow or some other problem I will switch to my other tank, let my bubby know if (I'm diving with one) and surface.

I would like to know a little more about your configuration, if you don't mind. Are your tanks manifolded with an isolation valve or are they distinctly separate without a manifold. If you have an isolation valve, do you keep it open or closed?

I don't think there is any way in the world I will dive with doubles as I would never be able to handle the weight but I am interested in how other people do it.

Thanks
Richard

 

[FritzCat66]

Photogs and spearos are especially aware that, even if you don't start a dive solo, after chasing that fish to shoot you often end up that way. So, especially in either of those cases it's good to be rigged for solo, and that means some redundancy.

For me, that's a 19cf pony bottle with independent necklaced reg.

Once you start diving with a redundant system that you've practiced on, if you're like me you'll quickly get very used to it. It's just part of my standard rig now, even using it on shallow shore dives.

For me it's like the spare tire on my car: hopefully you'll never need it at all, but when you do need it, you really need it, so 1) it better be there, 2) you better know how to use it, and 3) it better be full of air!

Also for me, the peace of mind having it there translated to a few hundredths of a point lower SAC rate as well.

>*< Fritz

 

[DaleC]

If finding her secondary is stressful, perhaps we are not set up correctly? Perhaps we didn't review each other's gear at the beginning of the dive? Perhaps we didn't practice deploying our secondaries for each other in the water to make sure they worked?

I'm out of air, I'm struggling to deploy the third regulator in my kit. I'm under pressure and trying to remember to grab the extra octo and not the octo attached to my OOG single tank. This is very stressful.

Reg, I'm not arguing your points but wouldn't the problems in para two be resolved if the actions in para one were employed? One would (should) put as much effort into laying out and accessing a redundant air source as one puts into working within a buddy team.
________________________T
The buddy system is fine but there are times when it is less than optimal. I think an alternative system is worth exploring although I strongly believe in proper buddying when with a buddy. The real problems occur when we confuse the two. Acting like we're solo when with a buddy and soloing like we have a buddy.

Dale.

 

[QuarryDiver23]

I personally perfer to carry a pony, mounted to my primary cylinder, but I do not carry this for and out of air buddy - that gas is for me. Keep in mind that if an out of air emergency happens then they are welcome to what I have but we are making a safe ascent and the added safety factor helps.

Where I dive 80% of the time is in quarries or off NJ where the water is cold and viz is low. I have a 30cuft pony for these reasons: It is very easy to become separated from your buddy in low viz and if I do have a failure on my primary then I have the redundant supply to make a safe ascent and stop if needed. The water temp in the quarry I dive now is 38 degrees top to bottom at 117ffw; 1st stages have a tendancy to free flow and we train here to be able to shut down your primary and retreive your redundant supply.

One thing is that with and out of air diver or any situation that comes up you should never assume regardless of skill level how they will react to that situation underwater. You should train and practice for these situations in the event they arise.

Thanks,

JT

 

[micklock]

This responce is for rstofer, I forgot to hit the quote button.

My tanks are separate without a manifold so I can use any two tanks I can get. I own two steel 40s I use for shallow dives and three hp 80s I use for deeper dives. The 40s only weight 18lbs each but the hp 80s weight 28lbs each.

 

[rstofer]

This responce is for rstofer, I forgot to hit the quote button.

My tanks are separate without a manifold so I can use any two tanks I can get. I own two steel 40s I use for shallow dives and three hp 80s I use for deeper dives. The 40s only weight 18lbs each but the hp 80s weight 28lbs each.

So, do you dive one tank to exhaustion and then switch to the other for the return trip? Or is that second tank just for backup?

I guess in the case of a solo diver, the entire dive would be planned for one tank and the other would be just for backup. Correct?

I like the idea of hp 80s. They're a little lighter than hp 100s and I have a lot of experience with an 80 cf tank, albeit Al 80.

Richard

 

[micklock]

So, do you dive one tank to exhaustion and then switch to the other for the return trip? Or is that second tank just for backup?

I guess in the case of a solo diver, the entire dive would be planned for one tank and the other would be just for backup. Correct?

I like the idea of hp 80s. They're a little lighter than hp 100s and I have a lot of experience with an 80 cf tank, albeit Al 80.

Richard

I will breath the right tank down to 1200/1000 psi then switch to the left tank, then on the way up and at the saftey stop I'll switch back to the right tank to save the air in the left tank for the next dive. Then I switch the right (empty) tank out for a full one for the next dive so I have a full tank and a half full tank on the second dive. This is where having three hp 80s comes in handy. If I didn't own my 80s already I would get some Faber hp 71s, they weight 24lbs each.

 

[wedivebc]

As far as redundant sources go ... if you're gonna carry one, make sure you've practiced (in the shallows and in the presence of a dive buddy) how to deploy it. And always make sure prior to the start of your dive that the reg is deployable. One fatality here a few years back was due to a diver who was relying on a pony bottle ... but when it came time to deploy it, he had inadvertently trapped his reg and couldn't. Since he was diving solo, there wasn't an alternative ... he drowned with a full pony bottle on his back.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

There was a fatality on the Mackenzie a couple of years ago where the OOA diver pulled so hard on his buddies octo that he tore the hose and they both ended up doing a CESA from 90 ft. The OOA diver survived but was bent. Buddy was not so lucky
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/114150-diver-perished-hmcs-mackenzie.html

 

[simcoediver]

I personally perfer to carry a pony, mounted to my primary cylinder, but I do not carry this for and out of air buddy - that gas is for me. Keep in mind that if an out of air emergency happens then they are welcome to what I have but we are making a safe ascent and the added safety factor helps.

Where I dive 80% of the time is in quarries or off NJ where the water is cold and viz is low. I have a 30cuft pony for these reasons: It is very easy to become separated from your buddy in low viz and if I do have a failure on my primary then I have the redundant supply to make a safe ascent and stop if needed. The water temp in the quarry I dive now is 38 degrees top to bottom at 117ffw; 1st stages have a tendancy to free flow and we train here to be able to shut down your primary and retreive your redundant supply.

One thing is that with and out of air diver or any situation that comes up you should never assume regardless of skill level how they will react to that situation underwater. You should train and practice for these situations in the event they arise.

Thanks,

JT

I agree with you JT, I dive in the same situations you do but more often in the great lakes, vis is low and its cold drysuit diving. I started using a 19 CF pony slung under on every dive deeper than 80 ft after having a frightening experience with a freeflowing reg several years ago.Everything turned out fine but never again would I want that level of stress. My buddy is # 1 redundancy, my pony is # 2. When you are out of air(has,nt and will not happen to me) even a 10 foot swim to get to your buddy that is too busy taking pictures can be a long swim.
I prefer it slung under on my front as I can see and reach the reg and guage. Its not in the way at all.
Its turned on too before I enter the water, so its instant redundancy.
Planning your dives so that you have enough air is the correct thing to do, but really when you think about it **** does happen.

 

[gcbryan]

The best solution is to learn gas management (which will eliminate most everything except equipment failures).

Be/get a good buddy for most/all of your dives.

Sling a pony (buddies make mistakes too).

There are arguments for using or not using a pony but many (not all) of the arguments against are slight of hand, not on point, etc.

If someone says carrying a pony bottle is carrying too much crap more than likely they are already diving doubles, slinging a deco bottle and towing a scooter

Saying that you might not know how to use a pony bottle in an emergency is similarly a weak argument. There might be a fire in my house and I might not know how to open the door to get out but I'd probably figure it out.

You buddy is your redundant gas supply and he/she has a brain as well. I have a brain, I can drive more carefully, and not use a seat belt. But I'd rather use a seatbelt and I can still use my brain.

It is a legitimate choice to use or not use one but much of the logic used in these arguments is less that persuasive just from a logical perspective.