Dive Boat (and my) Mistake...

[Karibelle]

The OP got lackadaisical dm treatment. However, people have to be responsible for themselves. The old man should have chosen to skip the 105'dive. Grownup responsibility.

And as for poor service, it was what it was. Sometimes, nothing goes right on a day. The OP should have caught that though and it should have been a non-issue.

That perspective may make sense from that of a diver, a client. You really are responsible for your own safety and for making good decisions.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a dive professional. A divemaster. If I did my job as a DM as poorly as this, I would HOPE that someone would tell me. The DM in this story is either doing a poor job because she doesn't care, and is getting away with it, or because she doesn't know any better, and we're not helping her learn anything.

I expect GREAT service and as a result, I often receive it. As an instructor, I try to instill in my students the idea that they DESERVE great service, and as a result, the often receive it. I'm not talking about having the DM change out the tanks; I do however expect a proper briefing and an appropriate dive for the group. It's not hard to do these things as a DM. Expect greatness and people will rise to the challenge. Expect squat, and you'll get it and please, no complaining.

kari

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

That perspective may make sense from that of a diver, a client. You really are responsible for your own safety and for making good decisions.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a dive professional. A divemaster. If I did my job as a DM as poorly as this, I would HOPE that someone would tell me. The DM in this story is either doing a poor job because she doesn't care, and is getting away with it, or because she doesn't know any better, and we're not helping her learn anything.

I expect GREAT service and as a result, I often receive it. As an instructor, I try to instill in my students the idea that they DESERVE great service, and as a result, the often receive it. I'm not talking about having the DM change out the tanks; I do however expect a proper briefing and an appropriate dive for the group. It's not hard to do these things as a DM. Expect greatness and people will rise to the challenge. Expect squat, and you'll get it and please, no complaining.

kari

Thanks for that information. I guess I don't have that perspective? And you must have missed my further replies in the same post as the one you quoted:

So, she was a dmc, most likely. She should have been better supervised. But she needs to debrief this to learn from it. All should have known, so they can correct.

You must have missed that part.

 

[Karibelle]

Thanks for that information. I guess I don't have that perspective? And you must have missed my further replies in the same post as the one you quoted:
You must have missed that part.

Nope, didn't miss anything. I just didn't think that it was relevant to the exchange you and I were having, or you would have mentioned in when you responded to me. To ME you said

The OP got lackadaisical dm treatment...And as for poor service, it was what it was.

When all along I've been advocating debriefing her, this didn't seem like what you were saying to ME. If that WAS what you were saying to me, then yes, I did miss that.

I'm curious about what your perspective would be if this happened at your shop, with one of your DMs. Would you want to know? Or do you think "poor service, it was what it was."

-kari

 

[2 Big 2 Fail]

You know, there's another thread running about different "views." Well, I have to conclude that there are for sure different views of staying alive and well while diving. I won't belabor the facts are related in the OP, because it's not that much different in nature from a great many other incidents related here where somewhere along the line someone either consciously decided or let themselves slip into leaving behind the core of what they were (hopefully) once taught. I find this close to shocking.

I've spent my life in occupations where, if you want to stay whole, you never, ever get so experienced that you leave the fundamentals behind and where doing the fundamentals right every time is so reliably to be expected that anyone who doesn't do it is immediately noticed and, at the appropriate time, corrected or retrained.

Maybe it's that we're mostly recreational divers, and the training time is short, and we don't anticipate as much hazard. But my old peace officer and fire service instructors spent a lot of time preaching fundamentals of staying alive. (Thanks, Pete, rest your old butt-kicking soul. I always "watch the hands," and it saved my butt.) I'd never let someone else clean and load one of my weapons. I'd never walk out the front door without actually seeing that I had a round chambered. I'd never take over a prisoner from another officer without searching, no matter what they told me about having done it themselves. Those were things that were taught for a reason, the reason being that people had died from not doing them that way.

My SCUBA instructor taught to learn all we can about a site we're about to dive. I get that concept. I won't go with a raid party where they can't tell me about the place we're going to hit. And nothing is assumed in one of those briefings. If it's not specifically articulated, it means someone forgot to say it, and you ask. If no one said there is a dog or said here isn't a dog, you ask about dogs. I figure the same thing applies to a dive boat. If they don't say there's no current or there's such-and-such current, that means they forgot to mention it, and you ask. Otherwise, you're not briefed.

We were taught to test regulators and to observe the pressure drop during a breath. Why? Because someone who didn't check didn't have air at depth and died. If you don't know how much is in the tank, you can't have done the check. Our instructor taught buddy checks and agreements. You can't be messed up on hand signals, and, again, you can't be low on air before the dive without shorting the buddy checks. (Or checking it twice if you're solo.)

How do people get to that state of blowing off so much? My experience in this and other fields suggests it's the plain mental sloppiness that responds to the fact that nothing bad has happened before by imagining it won't ever happen. And I know way too many people who started out following their training, but after a while started now and then skipping some of it, then skipping more of it, until they'd dropped most of it on a few hundred occasions before they came to a bad end that would not have happened had it happened back when they were still doing it right.

The point here is not, "Oh, yeah. Better check my own air from now on." The point is, "What else was I taught, for the very good reason that people who didn't do it that way are dead, that I've gotten away from doing." People gripe about OW being too short. Well, it's long enough that it incorporates checks to prevent just about every preventable bad trouble in an appropriate dive. If you're a slob and don't do the checks, it's inevitable that someone just like you will die or get bad hurt on account of being a slob. Hope someone worthy doesn't get hurt trying to rescue you.

 

[String]

The main problem here all stemmed from allowing a 3rd party to set up your gear for you. Why would you WANT that?!

 

[String]

If the tanks were changed "after" the first dive, there was transit time and the splash, which are common times for free flow. The valve could have been open during transit between dive sites and/or the mouth piece of the alternate could have been pointing up during entry and during any surface swim time before descent. There could have been 3 air loss events after the tank switch, before the op looked at his gauge.

Ive had tanks that got banged in 10 minute taxi drives or 45 minute boat rides that were checked full on leaving and only 1/3 full on arriving.

It happens, valves sometimes don't get shut off tightly, things get banged and they do leak.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

The main problem here all stemmed from allowing a 3rd party to set up your gear for you. Why would you WANT that?!

I can understand that some people want to be pampered while on vacation. They let the DMs carry the gear, set it up on the boat, and rinse it afterward.

The problem is that the same people who want the DM/crew to set up their reg/BCD for them are the same people who forget or couldn't be bothered with doing systematic pre-dive gear checks.

When I'm on a dive vacation, I find that it would actually be more stressful to allow someone else to set up my gear for me. I do a series of checks in a pre-defined order while I'm setting things up, and having everything already assembled is a departure from the routine. Then I have to concentrate even harder on double-checking everything. Consequently, shortly after boarding the boat, I inform the DM/crew that I want to set up my gear on my own. If I need help with something, I won't hesitate to ask.

If I'm getting an on-board fill in-between dives, I'll watch the tank fill whip right before it's attached to my tank and while my tank's being filled. As soon as the fill whip is removed, I reattach my first stage and check the tank pressure. This gives the crew ample time to fill the tank properly before the next dive if necessary. The tank valve gets turned off during transit to prevent unintentional loss of gas before arriving at the next dive site.

 

[diver 85]

Lesson(s) learned possibly/hopefully-----no harm, no foul....By chance, hopefully they only charged you half price ie for a 1 tank dive......

Also, I think the newbie checking his 'reg' would not have helped out much---for noticing a short tank that is....

 

[UCFKnightDiver]

I don't like other people (dm's etc) messing with my gear, sucks that you forgot to check your gas pressure.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Nope, didn't miss anything. I just didn't think that it was relevant to the exchange you and I were having, or you would have mentioned in when you responded to me. To ME you said

The OP got lackadaisical dm treatment...And as for poor service, it was what it was.

When all along I've been advocating debriefing her, this didn't seem like what you were saying to ME. If that WAS what you were saying to me, then yes, I did miss that.

I'm curious about what your perspective would be if this happened at your shop, with one of your DMs. Would you want to know? Or do you think "poor service, it was what it was."

-kari

Ah. So you just don't look at a response in it's entirety. Got it. I just didn't want to repeat it, so I cut to saying it only once at the end of the two posts. I'll try not to multi quote in a response for you.
To answer your bottom questions- As a boat owner, my customers and dms talk freely about every aspect of the dive. My dm's are usually the very first to talk about issues and problems. The customers are always talking because they know we are very safety concerned and want to know of any issues, no matter how small, even. My dm's are never scared to tell of mistakes because they aren't afraid of our reactions, and they want to be the best they can be.

And if you are on a boat daily, you know that sometimes, things happen. And when they do, those little inconveniences all seem to happen on the same day. An inflator hose sticks, a diaphram needs adjusting, someone pulls their weight release on the boat and now it has to be restrung (we rent out Zeagles, it takes a few minutes to restring the pockets), someone forgot their left bootie, a tank got loaded that had a cover on it but was not filled. It happens. It is how it is dealt with that makes a good trip. All of this is why everyone should check their own gear and make sure that their dm's are doing the problem solving and anticipating of issues, instead of maid service by changing everyone's gear over.

We debrief, have a "how did the dive go" talk after the day is done. We sit down and relax and discuss the boats. It makes us a smooth group who knows what is going on. We know our customers well. We are not a big tourist destination and have lots of repeat business. This makes for a family atmosphere. My customers usually help unload the boat as much as the staff.

Do you dive a boat regularly? Do you run a boat or dm one? What do you do? How do you run it? Just wondering about your perspective. I know many instructors who take their students out, but don't work on the boat themselves.
Expectations either way should be of high quality-safe boat and site briefings, knowledgable about the site and dive, capable f problem solving, good people skills, and professional.