Dive Boat (and my) Mistake...

[Karibelle]

I guess it's better to be lucky than good?

Let me clarify...

I think we've put this DM in the position where we HOPE she'll learn from her mistakes made on that dive. We're not sure, because we failed to take the steps that would ensure she'd have the opportunity to learn from them. No offense to you, OP, but you're not the right person to offer her further education about all the things that you wish - as her employer - she had done differently. It sounds like the assumption is that if you mentioned this to her boss, it would go badly for her. Maybe not. Maybe she would get coached on how her boss would like his clients ultimately to be treated, and she could go forward with a greater understanding of her job, perhaps ask some questions, and be a better DM tomorrow with her next boat. By not saying anything we rob her of that opportunity. As I said in my original post on the topic, all we've done is ensure that the current level of service continues. And that's not good for the shop, for future clients, or for that individual as a DM.

We learn more from the 1s than we do from the 5s.

kari

 

[vladimir]

That seems like a reasonable initial take if you haven't briefed your group on what the signals are and when to give them... so in the case cited, makes some sense I suppose.

-kari

It seems to me to be a reasonable initial take whether you have briefed your group on signals or not. What's the downside? That somebody with adequate gas declines your octopus? And what could go wrong if you don't offer it?

Assuming you had divers who didn't know the signals before your pre-dive briefing, are you confident that they will retain the knowledge you so recently imparted during an out-of-air emergency?

 

[mjatkins]

@mjatkins: No, it wasn't a misstatement. I've always been of the mind that when my buddy's gas status is ambiguous/uncertain, then it's best to just offer an alternative air source. On a related note, I always thought it was rather funny that my PADI OW books instructed an out-of-air diver to first signal "out-of-air" and then signal "share air." Obviously, if I'm out-of-air, I need to obtain an alternate air source, right?

If I give a low-on-air signal, I would hope that my buddy or DM would first offer his/her alternate air source to me. Then we could figure out how to proceed, i.e., accept/not accept shared air, abort dive, fix issue, etc. I think this course of action is probably better than just assuming no air share since the low-on-air signal is still a little ambiguous. Does it mean 500 psi, 300 psi, 100 psi, just barely above 0 psi? Also, depending on the depth at which the low-on-air signal is given and other factors, it might make sense to share air for a little while and then have the recipient return to his back-gas at some point during the ascent. At the very least, it's safer for the low-on-air diver to maintain some gas in his tank in case the two divers are separated during the ascent (buoyancy problems?). Those are just my thoughts on the matter. I realize that various agencies might teach different things. As with all things, it's best to discuss this with a buddy during pre-dive planning.

If I were a DM, that's what my initial take on the situation would be.

OK, thank you for the clarification that this is your opinion. In the case of a proper briefing by the DM, or proper planning by the buddy pair, this signal should not be "ambiguous". It should mean what was agreed on during the briefing or dive plan. And certainly the "out of air signal" should not be ambiguous.

Is anyone seeing this as standard practice, to signal low on air instead of out of air?

 

[ReefHound]

OK, thank you for the clarification that this is your opinion. In the case of a proper briefing by the DM, or proper planning by the buddy pair, this signal should not be "ambiguous". It should mean what was agreed on during the briefing or dive plan. And certainly the "out of air signal" should not be ambiguous.

Is anyone seeing this as standard practice, to signal low on air instead of out of air?

No, by no means would you want someone signaling LOA when they are OOA.

In a perfect world, where everyone listens to the briefing carefully and truly understands the briefing versus looking at you and nodding their head and saying they understand when actually they are thinking about how to do a giant stride or what to have for dinner, maybe the signals you get underwater will mean exactly what you briefed them to mean. Of course, if you are diving with known buddies the uncertainty goes down.

But you're an instructor, are you saying you haven't ever briefed a skill and everyone shook their head in understanding then you descended and when it was their turn to demonstrate they suddenly didn't understand so well?

I personally don't go as far as deploying the octo but I wouldn't nitpick someone who does. Perhaps they just want to reassure the other diver that they have air and are ready to share it.

 

[mjatkins]

No, by no means would you want someone signaling LOA when they are OOA.

In a perfect world, where everyone listens to the briefing carefully and truly understands the briefing versus looking at you and nodding their head and saying they understand when actually they are thinking about how to do a giant stride or what to have for dinner, maybe the signals you get underwater will mean exactly what you briefed them to mean. Of course, if you are diving with known buddies the uncertainty goes down.

But you're an instructor, are you saying you haven't ever briefed a skill and everyone shook their head in understanding then you descended and when it was their turn to demonstrate they suddenly didn't understand so well?

I personally don't go as far as deploying the octo but I wouldn't nitpick someone who does. Perhaps they just want to reassure the other diver that they have air and are ready to share it.

Point made, I'm not trying to nitpik. I got the impression from the post that the appropriate response (the one the poster would have expected) was a reaction to out of air instead of low on air. I am trying to determine, in an effort to become a more well rounded professional, if that is a common expectation. It would appear that your opinion is "No, by no means would you want someone signaling LOA when they are OOA.", and "I personally don't go as far as deploying the octo".

Thank you for the input, I look forward to other peoples experiences.

 

[mjatkins]

Just to be clear and avoid confusion, the post to which I am referring is the one by bubbletrouble, not the original poster.

 

[Bogie]

I always check my air before I enter, when I reach the bottom and continue to monitor regularly during each dive. I do buddy checks, checking psi and regulators. It is my responsibility on every dive. My life depends on it.

Good for you that you were checking your air during the dive. You communicated and surfaced appropriately.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

Thanks for Sharing our Story. You pointed out your mistakes and you know how to correct them. We are always learning, some lessons are more painful/deadly than others.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Another possibility is that a full tank was switched in and air escaped sometime between the switch and the OP's looking at the pressure gauge "at depth"

 

[Karibelle]

Another possibility is that a full tank was switched in and air escaped sometime between the switch and the OP's looking at the pressure gauge "at depth"

He said he checked his air "on descent" and the dive site was "35' to 45'."