Dive Boat (and my) Mistake...

[MauiScubaSteve]

If the tanks were changed "after" the first dive, there was transit time and the splash, which are common times for free flow. The valve could have been open during transit between dive sites and/or the mouth piece of the alternate could have been pointing up during entry and during any surface swim time before descent. There could have been 3 air loss events after the tank switch, before the op looked at his gauge.

 

[mjatkins]

If the tanks were changed "after" the first dive, there was transit time and the splash, which are common times for free flow. The valve could have been open during transit between dive sites and/or the mouth piece of the alternate could have been pointing up during entry and during any surface swim time before descent. There could have been 3 air loss events after the tank switch, before the op looked at his gauge.

Wouldn't you normally close the tank during transit time? And how much transit time are we talking about to go through 1600 psi with no one noticing? Also, I have to say that if one of my divers had a free flowing reg for long enough to drain that much air, I would have to be deaf and blind not to notice. It's also possible that the CIA snuck onto the boat and drained his tank in a plot to assassinate him in retaliation for his role in the shooing of JFK. But what do we expect is the most likely thing that happened?

; )

 

[idocsteve]

But what do we expect is the most likely thing that happened?

; )

My money is on "tank Gremlins".

 

[Bubbletrubble]

Point made, I'm not trying to nitpik. I got the impression from the post that the appropriate response (the one the poster would have expected) was a reaction to out of air instead of low on air. I am trying to determine, in an effort to become a more well rounded professional, if that is a common expectation. It would appear that your opinion is "No, by no means would you want someone signaling LOA when they are OOA.", and "I personally don't go as far as deploying the octo".

@mjatkins: If 1 person out of 100 expects the octo to be offered when flashing a LOA signal, do you think that warrants having your hand on your octo as you approach the LOA diver? What about actually deploying the octo? What are the advantages/disadvantages of presenting the octo sooner rather than later?

The answers to these questions help guide what I have decided to do if ever placed in that situation.

 

[Doc Harry]

My divemaster apologized half a dozen times, and I told her I wasn't upset. I also let her know it was between her and I, and I wasn't going to mention it to the other divemaster or captain.

The underfilled tank was not your fault or responsibility. That is the fault and responsibility of the dive shop who fills the cylinders. I'd be very pissed off and insist on either another FULL cylinder NOW or a refund back at the dock.

It was, however, as your pointed out, your responsibility to detect the fact that you had an under-filled cylinder while you were setting up and testing your gear.

 

[TSandM]

FLTRI, thanks for posting this. We all make mistakes . . . not too long ago, I got in the water with a half-full tank, and it was my fault in all regards, since the tank was mine. It was a good, sharp reminder that safety protocols are in place for a reason, and I have been far more careful since.

I do think I might have been willing to do more of a dive than you did, at the depths you describe. I would have let the DM know I had less gas than I ought, but I wouldn't have frankly aborted unless there was some reason that doing a shorter dive would be problematic (designated pickup point or something of that sort). It might have been rather difficult, though, to explain HOW you got to such a low pressure, and if she thought you were hoovering like that, SHE might abort the dive!

As a DM, if someone comes to me and signals low on air, I'd probably offer my regulator first, and then ask to see the gauge. There's no downside to offering, and if the diver waves the reg off, then you check the gauge and see just how much of a problem you have.

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Next site is at 35-45'and they did brief us a bit more on it than they did on the first dive. They also switched out everyone's gear. We go in, and on decent, I check my air, 1300# We were shallow, so I stayed with the group for about 5 minutes. I finally get one of the divemasters attention, and signal I'm low on air, need to surface, and ask which direction the boat is. She doesn't get what I'm asking and hands me her octopus. I decline as I'm still at 900# and 35 feet but let her know I need to do a controlled accent, and find the boat.

We go up together, and the boat is at least 1/4 mile away. Neither of us have a safety sausage, but I have a whistle. Took a about 10 minutes to get the captains attention, but he finally see's us and picks us up.

She asks me what happened,and I tell her I had an empty tank. She assures me she switched it and I say I know, I watched you do it.

Now, I know The majority of fault lies on me. I didn't check the pressure prior to going in. It's my gear, and I'm responsible for it. Nothing bad came of it other than an aborted dive.

What troubles me is one of the divers was on his 5th dive, and is 67 years old. I kinda watched over him a bit on the first dive, and while he did well, I don't think he looked at his reg once. He more or less just did what the rest of us did, and surfaced with us. Had he gotten the empty bottle, it could have ended poorly.

My divemaster apologized half a dozen times, and I told her I wasn't upset. I also let her know it was between her and I, and I wasn't going to mention it to the other divemaster or captain.

I've never had this happen before, but even after 100 dives, I'll never go in without checking the "new" bottle again...

Why people let others change their tanks and set their equipment, is beyond me. I don't care that many operators do that automatically. I don't let them, and I teach my students to take care of their own equipment. Had you done it and checked the air properly upon change over, you would have found that the tank was low and switched it over then.
Had you checked your air before entry, as you should, you would have confirmed the level. Two times to check air were skipped. Don't miss them again.

This should not have been for the dm to do to begin with. Her job is assistance and guidance, not setting everyone's gear. I really do not like those ops that do that. And it sounds like she was new, to boot.

Thanks for posting and I'm glad it turned out okay.

I'm curious about your statement above, though. It's not like you'd be ratting out a friend when you're in grade school. This is a business, and it should be taken seriously. Not sure what it is that is the big secret, and IMO there shouldn't be one. It sounds like you weren't "upset" because you've taken a lot of the responsibility on yourself (and appropriately so, there are things you've learned from this). But that doesn't absolve the DM from the responsibility selecting appropriate dive sites for the divers in the group (and dive #5 to 105' is not appropriate) and giving a full and proper briefing, including boat procedures, signals, and so on. You got poor service, regardless of whatever mistakes you might have made, and failure to point that out only serves to ensure that that level of service continues.

Off the soapbox. Again. I'm glad you learned from this.

-kari

The OP got lackadaisical dm treatment. However, people have to be responsible for themselves. The old man should have chosen to skip the 105'dive. Grownup responsibility.

And as for poor service, it was what it was. Sometimes, nothing goes right on a day. The OP should have caught that though and it should have been a non-issue.

Okay, this is the issue I have. I understand you're trying to be a good customer and you're not trying to get the DM in trouble, but if it were me I'd have told all three of them together the exact same thing. No point in them not realizing they took out a low tank (maybe an issue with their fill station???) and no harm if you treat the situation the same way with all three of them.
This doesn't mean an issue with the fill station. I have had customers pull the dust cap over an used tank and later found it upon gearing up. This is why we always carry 2 extra tanks per dive. It happens. It probably did here. Which is why the dm would hook it up. Of course, she should have looked at the air too, if she was setting up the gear.

Why leave it up to the DM to make sure next time when they can all be made aware so they can double check each other. As far as I'm concerned, the buddy system should be applied all the way from the shop and back to it on a dive boat operation like this. DM's should double check each other just as much as the divers should.
Talk about ridiculous over workloading.

Maybe I'm being naive but there doesn't seem to be any harm in making the "whole operation" aware of the situation if you're not upset about it and don't feel like it was anything more than a simple mistake that can be avoided in the future.

Obviously, I answered in blue above.

Couple of reasons, actually. She was obviously "junior" on the boat, the other divemaster and captain were in charge. She asked many questions of them both on the van ride to the dock, and while on the boat. I felt it served no purpose to tell her superiors (her boss) that she set my gear up on an empty bottle. Secondly, the apologies were genuine, she meant it.
So, she was a dmc, most likely. She should have been better supervised. But she needs to debrief this to learn from it. All should have known, so they can correct.

I felt that she learned something too, check your customers gauges, they may not be. I think she realized how this could have gone very bad, had the older, inexperienced diver gotten my tank. And you're right, I was more than a little surprised they let him go that deep, in a pretty healthy current, with only five dives under his belt...
They are not dive police. He made his own choices.

While it is my mistake, on the boat I regularly dive in Kauai, the captain or dive master checks every diver out right before they go in. I've watched them open closed valves more than once...

I have watched them close the tanks too. Which is why I take responsibility. I bet you will to from now on.

The underfilled tank was not your fault or responsibility. That is the fault and responsibility of the dive shop who fills the cylinders. I'd be very pissed off and insist on either another FULL cylinder NOW or a refund back at the dock.

It was, however, as your pointed out, your responsibility to detect the fact that you had an under-filled cylinder while you were setting up and testing your gear.

Wow. Over-react much? OP should have noticed a low cylinder and simply changed it out before he got wet.


OP, I bet you had a really good wake up, here. We all get them, on some thing or another.
My concern is also that neither you nor your dm had an SMB.
That is a problem. She should definitely have one at all times, and I think all divers should have their own, also.

 

[Doc Harry]

ZenDiver.3D, you assume that dive boats carry extra cylinders. I've been diving all over the USA, Australia, Caribbean, Asia and Europe, and none of dive boats (except live-aboards) had extra cylinders. If you had a short fill, you had a short dive.

If I spend $1,500 to spend a week in Florida (or $10,000 to spend a month diving in Australia) then -- yes, I am going to be pissed off if my tank is only half full. And no -- that's not over-reacting.

 

[bowlofpetunias]

Lots of lessons to learn here.. thanks!

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

ZenDiver.3D, you assume that dive boats carry extra cylinders. I've been diving all over the USA, Australia, Caribbean, Asia and Europe, and none of dive boats (except live-aboards) had extra cylinders. If you had a short fill, you had a short dive.

If I spend $1,500 to spend a week in Florida (or $10,000 to spend a month diving in Australia) then -- yes, I am going to be pissed off if my tank is only half full. And no -- that's not over-reacting.

Ahhh. That's nice. In the countries I've been to, Egypt, US, Maldives, Phillipines, and the rest, pretty much all have had one extra on the boat if it was a boat dive.
Of course, many also made you check your gear and tanks before we left. This isn's my first time off the farm, either......

My boats always carry an extra tank set and an extra set of gear. Of course, we tend to go the extra mile. I've handed over my gear or traded it for rental stuff if the customer had a problem. My DM's do the same. But then, we can sort out or fix most any problem on board. If we didn't have an extra tank, my dm or I would dive the same tank and give up our full one. That's our job.