Dive boat accident involving Dive tech and Cathy Church boat

[Cert1967]

The previous post is exactly why folks should not get their info from the press. We have a Newton and could not be insured as a dive Op and a member of CITA unless we had a trained captain to operate the boat.

Yes I am part of CITA. Yes I am affiliated with a dive op and I do not know of any dive op who had an unqualified boat captain. Whether they are licensed is irrelevant. If we or most of our colleagues were looking for a captain they would be trained on the boat by qualified people until they were up to snuff Does anyone really think it makes sense for ops to put the very thing that is necessary to run their business at risk in the hands of someone who is incapable. The costs for replacing props and even minor parts is huge and we lose business waiting for parts to get on island. Some of the comments border on just plain silly. The dive ops are a major force working to tighten regulations for all marine vessels both personal and commercial. We have the most to lose from a commercial standpoint.

@caydiver

I was thinking of more rigorous certification - similar to the USCG licensing program - background check, experience, plus formal training, testing and an actual license. Like the master near-costal license requirements - lifted from a company selling training.

• Master Near Coastal: 720 days underway experience since age 16; 90 of those 720 days in the last 3 years; 360 of those 720 days outside the boundary lines. Completion of the Mariners Learning System™ Coast Guard approved course.

Additional Requirements Include:​

• Obtain a Transportation Workers Identification Credential (TWIC Card)
• Minimum age: 19 years old (U.S. Citizenship Required)
• Pass a Physical Examination
• Pass a Drug Test unless enrolled in a USCG-approved random drug program for the last 185 days, and with no failure or refusal to participate in a chemical test for dangerous drugs.
• CPR/First Aid training
• Completion of Mariners Learning System™ USCG-approved Master 25/50/100 Ton online course
• Complete a USCG Original License Application Package

The requirements sound a little better than on-the-job training only to me. But, as you say, "Whether they are licensed is irrelevant."

No use bothering with the above list as the requirements for licensure are irrelevant? Which ones? The drug test, CPR, First Aid, course work, TWIC?

When you say 'training', would this be similar to what captains at your resort/op have? Or, are the trained on-the-job, by someone who was also trained on-the-job?

Maybe not the correct license for a 46' Newton operated out of a USA coastal port, but the license requirements seem ok to me. Probably better than being trained by Sue, who was trained by Bob, who was trained by Jenny and so on and on.

I am sure the Mary Girl has been hauled off of the rocks by now? The incident was a year ago last July.

Was the Mary Girl owned by a member of the CITA? You must know who owned the boat, would you like to share the information?

Was the captain drug/alcohol screened following the incident? His training and experience reviewed?

The boat looks pretty substantial to me, but no life rafts in sight? Must not be required in the CI?

The six folks on board - who reportedly suffered only minor injuries - had no need for life rafts. Must have walked home? Nah, no need for licensure here - full speed ahead, and you know the rest. It must have been quite an experience for those on board.

"I do not know of any dive op who had an unqualified boat captain .."

The Mary Girl's captain? I suppose the outcome could have been worse? Any port in a storm? I'll bet the neighbors were surprised when the passengers and crew knocked on their doors!​

Charter boat runs aground with seven on board | Cayman Compass

Ron Clair Ebanks July 9, 2017 at 11:09 pm
I am very happy that no one was seriously hurt . But it surely shows that Captain didn’t have any boating experience . I wonder how many more like this Captain are operating Charter boats in Cayman islands today .

Anonymous July 14, 2017 at 11:32 pm
Ron Ebanks, i wanted to tell you that the captain was very trained. I rode on his boat 2 times for day trips. He told me about his boat and he is very experienced. His full time job is taking these trips out. He has drove this boat out everyday for years. At stingray city he is the stingray whisperer because he goes out everyday. He is a very nice guy!
​

Well, there you go - there are two sides to every story. At least the props on the Mary Girl look ok - at least that expense was avoided?

What might have made a difference? Perhaps hiring the captain referenced below - a USCG 100ton Master Captain. He seems to have a lot of licenses and certifications. Which ones are irrelevant to you?

Jim Wyatt, , Experienced Diving Staff, Key Largo, Florida Keys​

Licensure? Sounds like a good idea to me for big boats, like Newtons. You seem to have a different opinion.

"Whether they are licensed is irrelevant."​

Does experience, training, testing, and licensure ensure a better outcome? Not always, why then go to the trouble? Probably because operating a 46' Newton, with 20 or so passengers and several crew members - or similar boat - is a big responsibility.

So, you have to have a license - SCUBA certification - to dive off of a CI dive boat, but the captain can have on-the-job training to bring you safely out-and-back? A non-certified diver is largely a danger to himself. An unlicensed, informally trained captain, with 20 or so paying vacationers on board - sounds like a plan to me.

Land Ho! Hold on tight.

 

[Wookie]

Cayman Islands actually has a fairly stringent mariner endorsement program. Since Cayman Islands is a flag of convenience for many yachts in the Caribbean, they fully comply with the requirements of IMO regulations and STCW 2010. The requirements for a Masters or officers endorsement is relatively easy to google, and if you know the mariners reference number, you can look up their endorsements. I'm on my wife's computer and I don't know how to cut and paste, otherwise I'd do so.
Bahamas is the same way. Any commercial vessel must be piloted by a licensed mariner with a Bahamas endorsement.

 

[Tienuts]

I was thinking of more rigorous certification - similar to the USCG licensing program - background check, experience, plus formal training, testing and an actual license.

I think her point was licensure isn't the end-all be all. Tons of commercial boats with licensed captains do stupid stuff all the time in the US. Here's 2 right off the bat, and plenty more.

Nine survive boat collision in Chesapeake Bay

Woman killed after boat capsizes off Pompano Beach

 

[EastEndDiver]

I would like to know how having a Captains license would have prevented this accident also the other one pointed out with the boat run onshore.

Both accidents happened with an inattentive "Captain" and lack of common sense

 

[Superlyte27]

Wrong...there are no stupidity exclusions in policies....short of burning down your own property.

Actually, we even pay when that happens.

 

[Akimbo]

file:///C:/Users/John/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/SZDDWCC8/12330341.pdf

Nobody who is not on your network can access that file, but you can use the Upload a File button to include it in your ScubaBoard post.

 

[caruso]

I think her point was licensure isn't the end-all be all. Tons of commercial boats with licensed captains do stupid stuff all the time in the US. Here's 2 right off the bat, and plenty more.
Woman killed after boat capsizes off Pompano Beach

How is a rogue wave capsizing a boat "stupid stuff that Captains do?"

 

[Tienuts]

How is a rogue wave capsizing a boat "stupid stuff that Captains do?"

I wasn't there, but I lived in Ft Lauderdale at the time. The reports I heard were that was an outgoing tide, with incoming swells into the hillsboro inlet, which is treacherous to begin with. The captain allegedly mis-timed his approach.

 

[Wookie]

I wasn't there, but I lived in Ft Lauderdale at the time. The reports I heard were that was an outgoing tide, with incoming swells into the hillsboro inlet, which is treacherous to begin with. The captain allegedly mis-timed his approach.

Lotsa experienced captains have screwed up that inlet.

 

[Joneill]

[

I think her point was licensure isn't the end-all be all.

Agreed - I'll take experience over a piece of paper any day!