Dive boat accident involving Dive tech and Cathy Church boat

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Having had several different types of insurance policies written on Cayman by various Cayman based companies I was always surprised at how different their coverage and terms were and what I was indemnified against etc..

I never had a boat policy but other types were always suprising.

Bottom line it is different as Tridacna said it depends on the where.
 
Stand by to yawn.....

In general, liability insurance coverage protects you from claims made against you for the whole spectrum of negligent conduct. "Gross negligence" is a type of negligence and is covered under every liability policy I've seen. There is a difference between ordinary negligence and gross negligence, but it is not a distinction that matters in the "what is covered" question - at least that I've ever seen.

"Ordinary" negligence is generally defined as the failure to exercise reasonable care.

"Gross negligence" is distinguished by state of mind. It's a step beyond ordinary negligence. The definition varies by jurisdiction, but generally it is acting with conscious or flagrant disregard for the rights and welfare of others. Generally, it involves some actual subjective appreciation of a high degree of risk and a deliberate decision to ignore it. For example, deciding to buzz another boat to scare them or rock them with the wake. It's clearly creating a danger. You don't intend to hit them, but you know you're doing something risky and do it anyway.

Like I said, typical liability policies do not distinguish between the two. You're typically covered even for gross negligence. Otherwise, you'd never be able to collect against a drunk driver's insurance.

Where you are typically not covered is for intentional acts, also sometimes called "willful" -- and by intentional I mean where the result of the conduct is intended.

So, you allow yourself to be distracted while driving the boat and cause an accident - covered. You're drinking and horsing around and cause an accident because of risky behavior (but you weren't trying to cause the accident) -- gross negligence but you're covered. You intentionally ram someone - not covered.

That's a generalization, but pretty standard.

There are instances where the difference between negligence and gross negligence is important, but not generally on the coverage question.

I'm not a lawyer, or an insurance dealer in this or any state, but I just read my last boat policy, which was a 2 million dollar policy, and the specific exclusion wording in my P&I policy was:

Would need to see the whole policy and endorsement, but sounds like this is directed at a situation where you are receiving coverage (to protect you) from liability arising out of the conduct of others (driving your boat), and the exclusion is making it clear that the policy is not extending coverage to THEM for THEIR own liability for their own conduct. i.e., you're protected under your policy but they aren't. However, that's just a guess without seeing the whole thing. It's hard to analyze an exclusion without seeing the scope of coverage.


Lastly, this is just USA, not Cayman - other countries' laws/policies/standard coverage may be very different. Here, different states have some variations, but the above is pretty generally accurate.
 
No point in the comparisons really. I have lived in and had property, health and car insurance in 3 countries and boat insurance in two. Have commercial and individual boat in Cayman. They are all insurance but all different. All have pluses and minuses but the definitions and liabilities are different.
 
No insurance or qualifications required for boat businesses | Cayman Compass

Op in Caymans needs a driver for a big Newton? No experience no problem, OJT.

Me, I always wanted to try driving a Newton, guess Cayman is my best shot - I’ve done some tractor driving, should be good to go. Need a potty break - just tie down the steering wheel with the throttles wide open - what could go wrong?

“Anyone can come off a farm tractor and get behind the wheel of a boat and it is all perfectly legal.”​

Life raft on your Newtons in the Caymans - maybe not. Safety equipment, maybe not too much beyond life jackets. What’s an EPIRB? Radar - no need, my boat knows the way home.

Certified SCUBA instructor? Oops, SB isn’t going to like learning from uncerted instructors? What could go wrong?

“He said there was not even a requirement for scuba diving instructors to be certified in order to take guests out in the Cayman Islands.“​

These folks really rock and roll, wide open seas.

And you think you might have some recourse in the CI legal system for negligence? Could be a reach?

“No experience, no qualifications, no insurance?“​

Rough seas - I’d hold on tight.

===============

Boat captain describes harrowing moments before Kittiwake crash

And how how this one? Licensed boat captains, licensed scuba instructors - obviously overrated?

Charter boat runs aground with seven on board | Cayman Compass
 
The previous post is exactly why folks should not get their info from the press. We have a Newton and could not be insured as a dive Op and a member of CITA unless we had a trained captain to operate the boat. You might find a fly by night but not an accredited op. Same as finding someone in any business any where in the world. It damages all the legit ops who work hard and follow the rules when this type of garbage is taken at face value. Those who are part of CITA have DMs that are completely up to date with their emergency medical etc and you cannot work as an Instructor unless you are locally insured as one. You don’t get insured unless you are qualified. Not rocket science.
 
No insurance or qualifications required for boat businesses | Cayman Compass

Op in Caymans needs a driver for a big Newton? No experience no problem, OJT.

Me, I always wanted to try driving a Newton, guess Cayman is my best shot - I’ve done some tractor driving, should be good to go. Need a potty break - just tie down the steering wheel with the throttles wide open - what could go wrong?

“Anyone can come off a farm tractor and get behind the wheel of a boat and it is all perfectly legal.”​

Life raft on your Newtons in the Caymans - maybe not. Safety equipment, maybe not too much beyond life jackets. What’s an EPIRB? Radar - no need, my boat knows the way home.

Certified SCUBA instructor? Oops, SB isn’t going to like learning from uncerted instructors? What could go wrong?

“He said there was not even a requirement for scuba diving instructors to be certified in order to take guests out in the Cayman Islands.“​

These folks really rock and roll, wide open seas.

And you think you might have some recourse in the CI legal system for negligence? Could be a reach?

“No experience, no qualifications, no insurance?“​

Rough seas - I’d hold on tight.

===============

Boat captain describes harrowing moments before Kittiwake crash

And how how this one? Licensed boat captains, licensed scuba instructors - obviously overrated?

Charter boat runs aground with seven on board | Cayman Compass

I’m seeing Grand Cayman in a completely different light today, unfortunately.
 
tell Cathy to put down the camera when she's driving the boat..lol
 
The previous post is exactly why folks should not get their info from the press. We have a Newton and could not be insured as a dive Op and a member of CITA unless we had a trained captain to operate the boat. You might find a fly by night but not an accredited op. Same as finding someone in any business any where in the world. It damages all the legit ops who work hard and follow the rules when this type of garbage is taken at face value. Those who are part of CITA have DMs that are completely up to date with their emergency medical etc and you cannot work as an Instructor unless you are locally insured as one. You don’t get insured unless you are qualified. Not rocket science.

Is there a list of those who are part of CITA? So we costumers can know?
 
Most are. You can certainly see on our websites and brochures. To be very honest I don’t know of dive ops who are not. I do know that many of the jet ski ops that just run up on the beach are not. Because they don’t have insurance etc they can offer cheaper prices. Most dive ops are all around the price if you factor in equipment rental, difference between 1 day and multiple day pricing etc. We have very tight margins but still have to be competitive.
 

Back
Top Bottom