I think this thread is great...
Really? I was kinda feeling bad about writing novels during my debate with Sas. Hey, y'all - if it gets long and boring, just skip over it.
Deep South,
You are making a bit of a prick of yourself here
Wow... "Liar," "Idiot," and now "Prick." All in one thread.
I think that's a "personal best" for me.
Yeah, I know I'm being a prick about it... I could have dropped it a long time ago. So could other people, by the way. But clearly, it's misinformation that's being propagated by people who don't know that they don't know. I tried giving straightforward information, but people keep arguing with me, even though my points are consistent with what the agencies say. I'm hoping that my insistence gets through at some point over all of the noise.
whether you want to admit it or not, you are twisting Sas's words to suit your arguement rather than admit that you mis-interpreted them in the first place.
There's no misinterpretation, and I'm not twisting anything. I'd be interested in a specific example (with quotes) if you're willing to do the legwork. Expect me to defend my position, though. I'm all ears.
1. No one is disputing your 'urban myth' about the diver ditching their gear and hunting for crays. I don't know if it is true and TBH could not care less. I don't think anyone else does either.
Well, that's all I said. That, and "NEVER separate yourself from your life support." When Sas and John blurred the line and brought up, "take your rig off, but leave your reg in," (which they were talking about all along - very different from my original point) I told them, well, fine, but I still don't see a reason why you'd ever need to do that. I've never personally seen a need to do that, and I've never seen anyone else have a need to do that."
To me, what's apparent is that I have never changed my perspective or claim... They appear to me to be clouding the argument and blurring my original point with another claim... I haven't misinterpreted anything.
If I had, clearly, I would admit it and apologize. That personality characteristic should be obvious by now.
2. When Sas said 'separate from gear' you know exactly what she meant. But just to spell it out, she meant to take off your rig (of course as a unit) keeping a reg in your mouth. Also you would hang onto it, she doesn't mean lay it on the bottom and swim off somewhere. I did this in my OW class.
Yes, and I did, too.
But Sas's post regarding that came AFTER I said, "NEVER separate yourself..." Her post was one of the first to go off on a tangent and cloud the original point.
...Which I have been chastized for and personally insulted for, all the while being accused of chastizing and personally insulting.
How you can imply that she was suggesting take it off in pieces is beyond me, I don't think anyone is going to remove their tank from the BP, take off regs etc underwater. I'm sure someone has done it though at some point.
Sure, I'm sure it's been done before, too. But the original post that kicked all of this off wasn't hers - it was mine, saying, "NEVER separate yourself from your life support..." I also told the urban legend story for the first time.
So Sas's doffing and donning post was a tangent from that.
3. I was there on the dive when this person removed their twins + 2 stages, so I know it was done.
Hey, who was the instructor that required the practice during a trimix certification? I'm not saying it didn't happen or that someone is a liar... I'm saying that what I'm being told simply doesn't make sense, and I'd like to understand more.
4. I don't know the instructor Sas was referring to personally, but even if I did I would not be giving you their name and CTC details either. Why? Are you going to ring them up?
Absolutely! Or email them or PM them or whatever and try to understand what was really going on - because the story as it's been told doesn't make any sense.
I know what response you'd get from them, same as you would if you rang me up out of the blue to discuss the way I do things. I could type it here, but I'm sure the filter would replace it with a load of "*".
I don't think any instructor would be offended if someone called them up out of the blue and said, "Hey, apparently you're requiring a doff and don of gear for a trimix certification. My trimix certifications didn't even require a dive... Am I missing something? What's the point of doing a doff and don for a trimix cert?" I'm sure that they would be thrilled to tell me why, if it was really a requirement. We instructors don't do things for no reason, you know.
5. I also know the diver Sas was referring to about removing their rig to push through restriction. It happened recently, I would not be surprised if video evidence is made available shortly like a lot of their other dives.
Are you talking about the sidemount diver? We already discussed that - my response to it was, "I have never considered a sidemount diver to be removing his life support when doing this," and asked if she knew why. She didn't respond with a direct answer.
I would be thrilled to see the video, as I'm sure it would plainly show why a sidemount diver who pushed his tanks ahead of him isn't separating himself from his life support.
He also never removes his BC.
6. What you say about referring to peoples gender is utter bullsh!t. Hey...I'm a bloke too and if I am directly addressing or referring to someone then I'll make the effort to check their profile and if still unsure I will refer to them in a gender non-specific way. (Notice in this point and in point 1. I use 'their')
Good on ya, bloke.
The rest of us don't care what gender you are when talking about diving. If you and your buddies do, that's fine.
My point about it all was, "If you're offended when people get your gender wrong, then take responsibility for it and make it more obvious. Then less people will call you the wrong gender." That's not bull****... That's straightforward. It's bull**** to make believe that everyone else should somehow go in and do research about you so that they don't get it wrong. I didn't do that - and I doubt many will. If you care about it, then take responsibility for it and do something about it - dont expect everyone else to change to make you happy.
If YOU assume someone's gender incorrectly it is YOUR doing and YOUR fault for being too lazy to bother to check.
I AM lazy (particularly today), I don't think I'm unusual in this one. She said it was a "pet hate" of hers, so apparently I'm not the only one making the error. If it consistently bothers her, then she has the ability to do something about it.
And, if you can't tell from Sas's avatar that she is a chick then mate, go get your eyes checked 'cause you're going to end up going home with more than you bargained for!!
Lol! What, are you from Thailand or something?
Just kidding.
7. What is wrong with starting the dive with less than a full tank?
Nothing. My quote is being taken out of context. I said, "Mask on face, regs in mouth, fins on feet, full tank when you go in..." My point wasn't the full tank, just that it wasn't empty.
You're the one banging on about 'Plan the dive and dive the plan' which most of the time is bull**** anyway for a rec dive.
Wow - who is training you guys over there?
OK, maybe for a square profile it'd be useful.
Never heard of "SADDDD?" The term, "dive plan" has nothing to do with whether you're diving a square profile or not.
Like many other 'dangerous' activities there is absolutely no problem with planning a worst case scenario and being prepared for that, doesn't mean you dive it though.
...And this comes from what agency?
You have to keep re-assessing your (and your buddies) situation throughout the dive and there will be a point at which the dive is ended, and there are many things that will necessitate thumbing the dive. But, if you give someone a runtime, then of course you stick to it.
Sounds almost like the stuff I've been taught, there's just a twist or two... Where'd you learn this stuff?
8. Re; the reg fix. WFT are you on about? It was thought to have been fixed on the surface. It was checked by someone else. Both divers thought it was fixed. It was field tested and found to be ok. It was tested on entering the water and found to be ok. At some point after that it became apparent that it wasn't in fact fixed.
Right? I'm in agreeance with you there - it wasn't fixed. They thought it was fixed, and it wasn't.
What did they do differently at depth that convinced them that it was now, truly fixed? I mean, if it started leaking again and it it was decided that it wasn't, in fact, fixed, then why repeat the "fix" if they knew it wasn't going to "fix it?"
...But then it WAS fixed... Apparently they did something different the second time over the first. What was it?
I never got a direct answer to that, either.
It was investigated underwater, problem was sorted out, and the dive continued with both Sas and her buddy monitoring the situation.
I dunno - maybe so. I never passed judgement on it. I only asked what was different the second time over the first. Never got an answer.
Excellent teamwork in my opinion. If you don't think so, bully for you! Great, awesome in fact. But FFS get off your high horse! There are times when thing appear to fixed when in fact they are not, and yes, screws do sometimes come loose all by themselves.
No they don't. Sometimes vibration can vibrate them out or something, but it generally doesn't happen so soon after a fix.
I agree - it appeared to be good teamwork. I still worry about the decision to continue to dive an errant reg. Combined with some of the other things that she's said, I voiced my opinion about the level of safety that she was voicing and what she was encouraging other divers to do.
And now you're just acting like a knob!
*sigh* "Liar," "Idiot," "Prick," and now "Knob." I'm setting the bar higher and higher!
I don't why you couldn't have said that you mis-interpreted her posts and got on with a sensible discussion instead of twisted her words around to justify what you said and acting like a knob.
Wow... "Knob" x 2.
You know, if I had twisted her words, I would have said, "Hey, I twisted words. I'm sorry." But I never did.
You, on the other hand, have called me a "prick" and a "knob." I am not insulted - it's just that personal attacks make you look like you can't debate rationally and must resort to personal attacks. Aside from that, it's against ScubaBoard's Terms of Service (TOS). Please refrain, debate more contructively, and act more maturely. Thank you.
P.S. I have the perfect reason to doff you gear underwater,
so you can sit in the cockpit of the Hellcat in Guadalcanal.
Okay, then... Enjoy it.
For what it's worth, that person hasn't "separated themselves from their life support," so your point is kinda moot. Yes, I can see that some people will doff their gear - Sas and I already established that when I said, "I suppose I would do that if nothing else worked..." I also said, "I doubt you're going to shoot to the surface and embolize," but I still wouldn't see that as a reason to practice the skill. What - just for this one dive?
This is a silly argument that has nothing to do with my original post about the urban legend.
