Disturbing trend in diving?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Also, to me it's a little appalling that operators allow this to go on and enable such behaviour when they should be demanding that customers have all the necessary equipment and know how to use it.

But that's the reality of the industry. On most dive boats I've been on (exception, Washington and California), there's at least on dive who cannot assemble their scuba kit.

In vacation destinations, this has been normalized and you have crews setting up people's gear because either they can't or they'd rather not do it themselves. Those of us who do not want anyone to touch our gear are the exception.

It would seem to me that they are putting themselves at risk just for a few extra bucks.

I think they are just keeping themselves in business. Negative reviews on TripAdvisor can be hilarious "Divemaster didn't carry my gear to the boat." Their job title is Divemaster, not slave...

But like some said, if it ain't broke don't fix it, until it breaks. But apparently nobody ever thinks or cares about that.
Now that I know more about how these foreign operators work I'll do my best just to avoid those places.
This thread has enlightened me so much!

To us, the system is broken. To the agencies seeking maximum revenue, everything is fine. Sure there will be a Linnea Mills, Patricia Flores Perez, Yuyu Xu, Jennifer Coyne, Tareq Saade (the last 4 from the same dive shop). But hey, shareholders need money. We can complain about it all we want, but unless low quality training impacts agency revenue, it isn't going to change.

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

No one here is forcing anyone to comply or trying to stop anyone from diving.

I don't know, if by here you mean 'scuba board' I seem to recall there have been threads where folks thought a significant change in standards and requirements was in order.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't know, if by here you mean 'scuba board' I seem to recall there have been threads where folks thought a significant change in standards and requirements was in order.

I think all their intentions are in the right place.
I don't see one downside to improving quality, integrity, thoroughness, etc.
It makes for better and more confident divers that will probably stay in the game longer and enjoy themselves more.
I don't think the way it is now at some of these places improves the sport one bit.
I'm not blaming PADI or any other agency, it's the dive tourism culture and the money grab mentality.

 

[Diver-Drex]

I don't know, if by here you mean 'scuba board' I seem to recall there have been threads where folks thought a significant change in standards and requirements was in order.

Yea, I shouldn’t have said ‘no one’. But I think it is out of safety concern mostly.

 

[Diver-Drex]

I think PADI or other agencies should offer an online 'quick refresher' type thing - and not charge $150. Either free or $10-20 and have it be a 15 min course, kind of a commonly forgot things... I mean things like "check your ndl time," and "Don't forget to do your checks before jumping in." None of it is rocket science, but I think even people who've gone a single year or less without diving could forget, yet not need a whole entire 're-activate' cash grab.

Every student has access to their books or online material for free. They are free to and encouraged to use the materials.

 

[Diver-Drex]

But that's the reality of the industry. On most dive boats I've been on (exception, Washington and California), there's at least on dive who cannot assemble their scuba kit.

In vacation destinations, this has been normalized and you have crews setting up people's gear because either they can't or they'd rather not do it themselves. Those of us who do not want anyone to touch our gear are the exception.

I think they are just keeping themselves in business. Negative reviews on TripAdvisor can be hilarious "Divemaster didn't carry my gear to the boat." Their job title is Divemaster, not slave...


To us, the system is broken. To the agencies seeking maximum revenue, everything is fine. Sure there will be a Linnea Mills, Patricia Flores Perez, Yuyu Xu, Jennifer Coyne, Tareq Saade (the last 4 from the same dive shop). But hey, shareholders need money. We can complain about it all we want, but unless low quality training impacts agency revenue, it isn't going to change.

Many dive ops provide ‘exceptional service’ to differentiate themselves from competition and get positive reviews. This was well intended and not meant to produce lazy or inept divers. But those are unintended consequences.

I am not aware of a single agency that accepts not knowing how to set up equipment as a standard. I am not aware of a single agency that does not teach dive planning. What the individual certified diver does after certification is not the agency or instructor’s responsibility.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Many dive ops provide ‘exceptional service’ to differentiate themselves from competition and get positive reviews. This was well intended and not meant to produce lazy or inept divers. But those are unintended consequences.

I am not aware of a single agency that accepts not knowing how to set up equipment as a standard. I am not aware of a single agency that does not teach dive planning. What the individual certified diver does after certification is not the agency or instructor’s responsibility.

It's an issue of QC. People sometimes get certified without meeting the performance requirements. Dive planning materials of all agencies that I've seen are insufficient. In my region, I get the impression that few divers meet WRSTC requirements as an autonomous divers as they lack the confidence (and knowledge?) to plan dives in similar conditions in which they were trained, even at the same site. That's what prompted me to write the dive planning document in my signature. There are instructors in my area that use it, as well as other places in the world. But not a lot. I'd be surprised if it was more than a dozen.

 

[Leatherboot69]

Why not just disconnect your speedometer and your gas gauge in your car and just go driving? Who cares?
Also, to me it's a little appalling that operators allow this to go on and enable such behaviour when they should be demanding that customers have all the necessary equipment and know how to use it. It would seem to me that they are putting themselves at risk just for a few extra bucks.
But like some said, if it ain't broke don't fix it, until it breaks. But apparently nobody ever thinks or cares about that.
Now that I know more about how these foreign operators work I'll do my best just to avoid those places.
This thread has enlightened me so much!

How is the system broken? A lot of people here complain about poor standards but the evidence demonstrates that scuba diving is a safe activity. I expect moreso if you’re having your hand held by a dive professional. Despite supposedly low standards we don’t have divers drowning by the bucketload.

And freedom means the free market baby - if you don’t like the dive op take your money elsewhere. If standards are that low then divers will avoid it, or drown. Either way, it’ll go out of business.

 

[Leatherboot69]

The diver training system, PADI or otherwise, has kind of done its job, of creating and sustaining a huge industry. It’s provided what consumers want - accessible, modular diver training.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

in

How is the system broken? A lot of people here complain about poor standards but the evidence demonstrates that scuba diving is a safe activity. I expect moreso if you’re having your hand held by a dive professional. Despite supposedly low standards we don’t have divers drowning by the bucketload.

And freedom means the free market baby - if you don’t like the dive op take your money elsewhere. If standards are that low then divers will avoid it, or drown. Either way, it’ll go out of business.

It's not broken, but it could be a lot better.
Who is ultimately responsible for diver being led around with no clue as to depth or time, hanging SPG's smashing coral heads, poor buoyancy also putting delicate marine life at risk, rototilling the bottom with horrible finning/bicycle kicking, hand swimming, overweighting causing yoyo diving and becoming a human wrecking ball. To me all this is tragic and not funny, and it shouldn't be something to be made fun of.
The training shouldn't have advocated for any of this, should it have?
So why does it happen? Who is enabling it?
What do some of these sites look like now as opposed to 30 or 40 years ago?
Are these reefs where they allow this suffering as a result?
Is short term gain that important as to destroy their long term lively hood? Why would I spend money and fly somewhere to go look at rubble?
If someone is incapable of even the basics like depth and time and don't care because a guide will do it for them, what else are they clueless about?