"disposable regulators" vs servicing?

[Pressurehead]

Because regulator parts are too small for the ugga-dugga gun?

No, I don't think that is it, just need the right size tools, and not use a impact tool, wrench [you guys call them wrench].

 

[jellycatsdad]

I was going to buy a set of Scubapro G250s with a MK10 first stage off FB Marketplace and use those to learn how a regulator works and put it back together - I know someone who took rsingler’s class. Never heard back.

With that said, I’m going to pick up an IP gauge myself and keep tabs on my current regs. Any IP creep, it’s getting serviced.

I wish the scuba industry wasn’t so anti-consumer for repair. After all the stories I’ve heard of “techs” butchering perfectly good regs, I want to learn how to fix my gear or be able to monitor the situation and send them off to someone well-known with a good reputation - like what I did with my current regs. I can walk into O’Reilly/AutoZone/Advance Auto Parts and buy white box brake parts for a car, but I can’t go into my LDS and ask them to sell me a Spro/Aqualung repair kit.

 

[Bigbella]

I wish the scuba industry wasn’t so anti-consumer for repair. After all the stories I’ve heard of “techs” butchering perfectly good regs, I want to learn how to fix my gear or be able to monitor the situation and send them off to someone well-known with a good reputation - like what I did with my current regs. I can walk into O’Reilly/AutoZone/Advance Auto Parts and buy white box brake parts for a car, but I can’t go into my LDS and ask them to sell me a Spro/Aqualung repair kit.

Ironically enough, Harlow, in his Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair, made that same argument, with respect to the ease of obtaining parts for home auto repair, over twenty-five years ago -- and leveled complaints at manufacturers for limiting access to service kits, though some minor progress has been made.

Some manufacturers have finally come to realize that selling their products and maintaining them are not necessarily associated with one another; and that a multi-hour drive to some shop willing to service a particular regulator brand, could eventually cut into their bottom line.

Poseidon largely cut their own throats in California, years ago, with that attitude, when many local shops carried their gear -- three within ten minutes of me, at the time. To their credit, their service kits and spare parts are now available, over the counter -- something that I had never anticipated.

Others, aside from Hog, Deep6, and very few others, are sure to follow.

So too, ill-maintained manufacturer web sites share some blame, with shop listings long vacated -- one having even become an adult bookstore in Southern California, years ago, I was told -- though having preserved a topless mermaid mural from the dive shop, in the process.

Added to all of that, is the high cost to a given dive shop, of having to spend a bare minimum of US 300.00 a head, every three years or so, for some one-day tech training seminar / refresher at a local Marriott, with little to show for it, aside from a certificate printed at Kinko's; and a further expense of having to stock their expensive kits, specialty tools and parts, for that lone dive shop activity which makes the least amount of profit, after travel, classes, rentals, and gear.

Some of that minor seed change, though, can be credited, in part, to those living in the stickier parts of the world, including some friends, who have long approached manufacturers over the years, for kits and parts -- often having cobbled them together themselves, everything from substituting o-rings to even making diaphragms from tire repair kits, when the closest listed dealer is hours or even countries away . . .

 

[jellycatsdad]

Ironically enough, Harlow, in his Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair, made that same argument, with respect to the ease of obtaining parts for home auto repair, over twenty-five years ago -- and leveled complaints at manufacturers for limiting access to service kits, though some minor progress has been made.



Poseidon largely cut their own throats in California, years ago, with that attitude, when many local shops carried their gear -- three within ten minutes of me, at the time. To their credit, their service kits and spare parts are now available, over the counter -- something that I had never anticipated.



Added to all of that, is the high cost to a given dive shop, of having to spend a bare minimum of US 300.00 a head, every three years or so, for some one-day tech training seminar / refresher at a local Marriott, with little to show for it, aside from a certificate printed at Kinko's; and a further expense of having to stock their expensive kits, specialty tools and parts, for that lone dive shop activity which makes the least amount of profit, after travel, classes, rentals, and gear.

Some of that minor seed change, though, can be credited, in part, to those living in the stickier parts of the world, including some friends, who have long approached manufacturers over the years, for kits and parts -- often having cobbled them together themselves, everything from substituting o-rings to even making diaphragms from tire repair kits, when the closest listed dealer is hours or even countries away . . .

Right to Repair needs to be adopted in scuba quicker and by the mainstream brands too. Hell, even Apple now allows the hoi polloi to buy parts and rent tools to fix the last few generations of iPhone and Mac. Which goes back to cars - I can go to my local Toyota dealer to buy a high-voltage battery for a Prius and replace it myself. But I can’t buy a service kit for my regs at the LDS because it’s “life support gear”. Yes, I know there’s HOG, Deep6 and DGX that encourage DIY repair but there’s people like me who are slightly vain and need to look cool, but doesn’t trust just any one to work on their gear.

I’ve learned a bit from this forum, a retired shop owner whose MO was to make diving affordable and my instructor about how our gear works. Despite the life & death warnings the major brands make, regs aren’t really that complicated as they make it out to be but there’s many “factory-trained” techs that don’t have pride and passion in their work. I was at my LDS - they only work on Scubapro in-house, everything else gets sent off. A customer had them send in a Aqualung reg only for it to come back not working. They said they’ll try to make it right but didn’t have faith in who did the servicing.

 

[mr_v]

Our attempts to live in a disposable world created mountains of trash and pollution to the point where we have garbage patches in oceans. Let's not contribute to that by using "disposable" regulators. Reduce, reuse, recycle. DGX XTRA is a good reg. Learn to repair it you'll be all set for years.

@jellycatsdad - if you're into branded gear (e.g., usual suspects like Apex), check out Scubagaskets. I am not affiliated and shipping costs will bite you. However, you wanted to look cool ;-)

Scuba Diving O-Ring Kit - ScubaGaskets

Our scuba dive o-ring repair kits include an o-ring as well as the appropriate tools, accessories & lubricants required for installation. Shop today!

scubagaskets.com

 

[TrimixToo]

Someone on another thread made the point that if you can assemble ikea furniture after a bottle of wine, you can service regs.

Maybe half a bottle.

Also, there’s an element of care in removing o rings without scratching the metal. We saw some horror stories of the hamhandedness of professional servicers (I.e., took a seminar at DEMA). I’d rather service my own and know that I was meticulous about pick technique and torque specs.

Maybe *two* bottles. Servicing regs gets routine after a while... (I say, I say, that was a *joke*, son!)

 

[cerich]

Yes, I know there’s HOG, Deep6 and DGX that encourage DIY repair but there’s people like me who are slightly vain and need to look cool, but doesn’t trust just any one to work on their gear.

That's..honest. I'm curious, is your vanity not met with any of those brands because of the price point? In other words, if a Deep 6 reg was $1,500 bucks (with whatever "reasons" to be that expensive) would you feel better to be seen diving it? Or is there also a marketing component such as seeing the brand in more dive media? (which by itself would push the price WAY up)

I know many folks that have dived, serviced and enjoyed their Deep 6 regs, then a few years later switch to a "major brand" and tell me honestly that they felt our reg performed as well or better "but", followed by "my team dives xx" when being diplomatic or the more honest "my dive buddies called me cheap".

 

[CT-Rich]

To be honest, after following this thread, I think I am the exact opposite of the OP. Instead of buying brand new gear to and selling to avoid service, I would recommend choosing a reg you like and buying used and paying to have it serviced.

A lot of new divers get pushed into buying gear early do 25 dives and don't stick with it. There is a glut of really good gear that has been lightly used on eBay or Craig's List. I bought my tanks off of Craig's list. It took a while for exactly the ones I wanted to show up, but I got them (2x 120s) for $250 (plus a bunch of loose gear). I spent $400 on a BCD (SP Nighthawk) and SP G260/ MK25 with a gauge, compass and hose integrated computer. All this gear I have been using for more than ten years. All my used gear came from Craig's list, so I was able to inspect it first hand.

Even if you pay someone to service it, it is a lot more cost effective than buy retail new. You do have somewhat more risk buy a regulator that was run over by a car, but that is less likely. Good gear will be good as new if properly serviced.
Basically junking new gear that should have a 20 year life expectancy is terrible idea not only from an economic stand point, but from an environmental one as well. There are tons of perfectly serviceable regulators out there looking for homes.

 

[Lorenzoid]

That's..honest. I'm curious, is your vanity not met with any of those brands because of the price point? In other words, if a Deep 6 reg was $1,500 bucks (with whatever "reasons" to be that expensive) would you feel better to be seen diving it? Or is there also a marketing component such as seeing the brand in more dive media? (which by itself would push the price WAY up)

Don't get any ideas, Chris!

I kind of look at Deep6, HOG and DGX as anti-establishment brands that might even make you "look cool" (to use @jellycatsdad's words). Savvy divers know what to spend their money on (I'd say quality training) and what they can save money on.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

It was the outrageous price that I was quoted to get two Atomic regs serviced here in Australia that triggered me to buy a couple of special tools and OEM service kits and service them myself!
Never looked back... even with the cost of buying the tools I was still in front!
However be warned it rapidly becomes an addictive hobby and the number of beautifully restored reg sets will grow exponentially

…excellent analysis my friend. My ‘old’ reliables are still ‘kicking’ with the best of them and I self-service. ( I already believe you know that. )

Touche’