DIR wars...Is it the name?

[dweeb]

No, the name implies that DIR *IS* the right way. DIR = TRUE

It is implied that if you disagree with DIR then you *are not* seeking the right way. NOT DIR = FALSE

Wrong. The name implies a goal. The goal is to do it right. They progress toward this goal by evolving their diving methodology based on sound principles.

By the laws of logic, if DIR = TRUE than anything which is NOT DIR = FALSE. Since this is not true, this is a situation where pure logic can not be applied as simply as you imply.

You don't understand logic then. The first law of logic is the law of non-contradiction. If you believe the way you are doing it is the right way, you must believe the other ways are wrong. However, all DIR adherents share is the belief that their way is the closest approximation of the right way, and a commitment to working to converge it upon the right way.

Some DIR procedures are demonstrably NOT the right way to do things in all situations.

An assertion often made, but seldom or never supported. Lose the vague allusions and offer clear examples.

Sometimes, they're not even the right way to do things in technical / cave diving.

And again.

Whenever I've seen them pointed out, some DIR disciples assault not the issue, but the credibility of those contesting the procedures...

Cite? That's a conversation I'd like to hear.

Am I a candidate for DIR? No. I'm overweight by a large margin. That makes me a 'stroke' in any DIR diver's book. You know what? I don't really care.

And thus your real motivation here is revealed.

There have been DIR proponents who have stated explicitly in this thread that not only am I not acceptable to take their training, but that I'm not acceptable as a dive buddy, despite never having met me and having no idea of my diving skill.They can magically tell that I'm not 'worthy' because of any of a number of protocols on equipment, training and fitness.

Well, the fitness aspect alone is a sound basis for a decision. No other information is needed. There is no degree of skill that will mitigate a heart attack, or insufficient stamina to completely weather a crisis. While I don't necessarily share their criteria for who I dive with, it's clearly rational and consistent.

Diving with someone who has superior skills should be an opportunity to learn and improve on your own skills. Once you've mastered those skills, you should pass them on to people whose skills aren't as good as your own. That is the obligation of the student in martial arts and academe. I see it as an unstated rule in the diving industry as well and consider that a good thing.
I see a disconnect in this cycle with DIR's philosophy if not it's practice. If you limit your diving partners to those who are on some 'approved' list, you limit the skills you can learn to those posessed by that group, especially if any skill learned or demonstrated is 'dangerous' if it isn't already in your 'Bible'.

There are two problems with your application of this principle to this scenario. First, if one is to share knowledge, the recipient must have an open mind and be willing to learn. An obligation to teach is not an obligation to entice with sweet talk. Why lead a horse to water if he declares he's not thirsty? Second, as to limiting one's pool of 'teachers,' it's only prudent to discriminate in what knowledge you absorb. I choose not to read the National Enquirer; is that a bad limitation of my exposure to knowledge?

 

[dweeb]

Even though I am not fit to clean toliets....

Just opiniongirl's toilet.

 

[cornfed]

Is it just me, or does your response sound suspiciously like yet another attempt to incite someone?

Honestly Bob, most of this thread is an attempt to incite someone.

 

[dweeb]

However the censorship guidelines on the board as governed by the TOS does not prevent anyone from partaking in a heated debate.

Problem is, just as the Constitution says whatever the 9 people in black robes interpret it to say, the TOS say whatever the moderators interpret them to say, and some of the moderators give a decidedly PC slant to their interpretation.

While it may be acceptable to call out someone it is not acceptable to be disrespectful of their point of view. Argue the facts, argue the principle, but do not argue the personality. Oh how easy this happens[/QUOTE]

These two sentences contradict each other. You're confusing point of view and personality. The former IS the topic, the latter is not.

 

[dweeb]

I think the point is that the MODS want Scubaboard to be non confrontational to aviod confusion and let the thread develope into a intelligent conversation.

This might be lost on some of the users , but in the end it will provide more information for some ,and less " terratory marking" for others.

One day, he is accusing the mods of corruption.

Then, he accepts an invitation to a private discussion with the mods.

Next day, he comes out evangelizing their merits.

Just like Winston Smith. He's been to room 109.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Just go to northern Florida and look around. It ain't pretty. And yes, I am being serious. You will find some of the worst divers. Divers who have gone through some very quick and incomplete courses. Yes, there are good divers from the other agencies. No one will deny that. The problem is the other agencies do permit (maybe unwillingly) some instructors to put out what most of us would call crap. GUE certification isn't a given when you take the class. You do have to earn their card and must keep working at it to keep it. If you have a good instructor with one of the other agencies that won't settle for anything less than the best, more power to you, you probably just got excellent instruction. The problem is that the other agencies can't guarantee you will get that type of instructor.

I'd like to give you one very simple example (I have many more stories) of something I saw that seems all to typical down there. Two cave divers get in the water. They are arguing the whole time, so it's already off to a bad start. When they discuss gas management. One diver looks down at his SPG and says I have 3300 psi, my turn pressure is 2200 psi. The other states, I have 2400 psi, my turn pressure is 1600 psi. Then they descend. What in heck is that? Each of them just looked at there own SPG and assumed 1/3 was usable. No one determined who had the least amount of gas in order to calculate what the usable 1/3 would be. I can assure you that either these guys had become so complacent, or their instructors failed them miserably. I can assure you they were not GUE trained.

My instruction has been from PADI, TDI and GUE. The latter is far and away the most comprehensive.

Detroit Diver -
how can you compare them?

 

[dweeb]

The folks at GUE don't really care if anyone is offended by the term "doing it right". They don't want to be a PADI, NAUI.

Speaking of that, if PADI is the professional association of dive instructors, does that mean all other instructors are amateurs? If so, that would mean they don't charge for training, and PADI would be wiped out on price competition inside a week.

NAUI is the national association of underwater instructors - does that mean they are limited to the USA,or that they are somehow the 'official' agency of a nation? Then again, is NBC the official network of the nation?

Can Jews, Muslims, and Hindus be certified by the YMCA?

It boggles the mind.

 

[dweeb]

Sorry dweeb, still laughing my butt off here. Basic training and some of the hardcorps techniques that go with it works great for training grunts to do what grunts do.

Having gone through both, i'll stick to my experience that a DI screaming in my ear is not the best technique to use when working with something like Laplace transforms.

And, comparing a chem or nuke school instructor to a Basic DI? Gimme a break!

Just telling it like those who were there did. Obviously it wasn't all yelling, but there was no sugar coating, and they were plenty mean (the guy who taught at chem school has been called mean by most everyone who knows him.) I've spoken to people who attended all three academies who also report they were hard on students.

In the private sector, law school professors are legendary for their harsh treatment of students, and the only thing the world fears more than America's military is its lawyers.

 

[novadiver]

One day, he is accusing the mods of corruption.

Then, he accepts an invitation to a private discussion with the mods.

Next day, he comes out evangelizing their merits.

Just like Winston Smith. He's been to room 109.

This would be the second post telling you , to step off, and leave it alone.

 

[cornfed]

This would be the second post telling you , to step off, and leave it alone.

"Step off" sounds like something someone who answered to "Dude" would say.